Hello users of Hexbear, we wanted to inform you that we are going to be locking the_dunk_tank and dredge_tank communities. We have created two new communities /c/gossip and /c/counterpropaganda to serve a similar but clearly distinct purpose than the dunk/dredge tanks.
Not only is the dunk tank a term that has racist origins, but also many posts there were almost no effort and often times requiring later edits to show how they weren't reactionary, ~~not useful with regard to developing rhetoric and furthering dialectical analysis of that which we dunk upon~~.
To that end, we wish posts of reactionaries to be placed in [email protected] along with an accompanying explanation (as simple or complex as desired) with the intent of countering the reactionary propaganda in the post body, as of now comments are not subject to the same ~~rhetorical rigor~~ rule.
For the posts ~~that are not "low-hanging fruit'~~ of notable people we ask that you use [email protected] .
These changes are mainly part of a continued effort to remove the racist and misogynistic elements from our community and grow.
Any moderators of the dunk tank or dredge tank that want to be a mod in the new communities let me know.
Any users with questions or comments please use this post, this change was made at the behest of the entire Hexbear mod and admin team. We will be looking for more moderators in an organized volunteer drive shortly, if you wish to submit an application you may send it to me via hexbear or matrix direct messages.
Use this post as a place for discussion to these changes. We will keep things as they are for 2 weeks and then reflect on the feedback, including this post: https://hexbear.net/post/3858346
As a personal addendum I am sorry if ~~the closing of the tanks~~ these changes removes a beloved space on the site and if you want to suggest a community to replace them you may do so at [email protected] or submit a mod application to take a more active role in shaping the site.
Sitewide or community changes come from proposals put forth from the mod team, discussed, and voted on by the mod team.
Any users wanting to suggest a community to replace the tanks, may do so at [email protected] current discussion is here https://hexbear.net/post/3858346 or submit a mod application to take a more active role in shaping the site.
You may also consider using [email protected] as a substitute for dunk/dredge tank posts as well
The mod statement can be found here: https://hexbear.net/comment/5613033
Application
What is your Hexbear username?
Do you have any preferred pronouns?
What are your thoughts on capitalism?
What are your thoughts on imperialism?
What are your thoughts on trans rights?
What are your thoughts on racial justice?
What do think about current and previous protests around the world?
What are your thoughts on Veganism and Animal Liberation?
Do you have any experience with other leftist online communities?
What did those experiences teach you?
What is your approach to moderation, and how do you work with teams?
How do you deal with online drama and people who try to start things for the sake of it?
What current comms would you be interested in moderating?
Do you have any ideas for community engagement?
What is your general time availability? (Time zone, amounts, common browsing times, etc)
Edit: removed my previous comment, I no longer agree with it.
I do think gossip is a bad comm name as others have pointed out already. Additionally, I do think this is an overly serious turn. While I personally would be fine with it, I would be happiest to see it put to a vote.
I think "gossip" (terrible name) should be a synthesis of dunk and dredge with low effort allowed, and counter can be an "effort dunk" comm. That is what I personally would want, a fun comm and a more effort focused debunk comm, that way we keep both camps as happy as I think we can.
My full stance however is that, more than what I prefer, it should be put to a vote, with both dunk and gossip corrected to better names regardless of outcome.
Dunking was directly countering things though? The dunk tank was full of people breaking down wrongful assertations. A dunk is also in itself a strong counter, not honoring everything with "being taken seriously" is good practice and does a lot to discredit obviously wrong and silly narratives.
I think sometimes it teetered on overzealous and missed the core point, IMO. The rules changes aren't eliminating dunking, just steering it IMO in a better direction. I am reading everyone's thoughts, as of now I am for these changes.
Sure, people do have a tendency to preemptively deploy ppb, but that isn't really related to the dunk tank. Rather the opposite in my experience. The dunk tank was where people put in a bit more effort to go thru why something was stupid.
Then not much should change, other than the problematic name.
I am responding to this
Not the broader thread
My comment was in reference to the replaced communities themselves, not just general reactions directly with reactionaries.
Yeah, so it was about the practice of dunking, right?
In the context of the previous comms. The changes seem to mean what would have been dunk material requires debunking in the body of the post, other than that not much has changed. The gossip posts aren't held to the same standards, so they largely become similar to what was the dunk tank.
I'm not convinced that this is as big a change as some people think it is yet.
Thank you for clearing that up! But then what do you consider dunking to be? Because that is what most of the posts in the dunk tank contained. I'm confused.
In my opinion, there's a difference between dunking and debunking, the former being "look at this stupid shit" and the latter being "look at this stupid shit, here is why it's stupid." Requiring at least the OP to write a couple sentences taking it down helps maintain some form of consistency, it doesn't need to be an effortpost every time.
Gossip doesn't have the same requirements, so for a quick laugh it seems to be fine and fulfill a combined "dunk/dredge" comm which solves the issue of overlap.
Basically, the issues were overlap and lacking an enforced space for effort debunking, and this could solve that.
I think it's a good change, but I'm not opposed to keeping it as is and changing the names either.
The entire purpose of the dredge tank was so that people could post about reactionaries who weren't Elon Musk, so I don't see how another "famous people only" comm fulfills its purpose in any way?
I have edited my top level comment, I don't hold 100% the same position I had when I made it after reading what others have said. You're correct, it isn't the same, it's closer to the dunk tank than it is to the dredge tank.
I'd be happiest to see this put to a vote. I think gossip is a bad name, and this move other than the name change is unnecessary, but I would personally be fine with it.
Yeah I agree and I am arguing that "look at this stupid shit" is a better and more effective rebuttal for a wide swathe of stupid shit. This is the practice I perceived you arguing against with the initial comment, which prompted my response to argue in defence of dunking as a practice.
edit: Anyway thanks for this exchange and thanks for your explanations. I appreciate it.
I appreciate your POV, I am not trying to say that you're wrong in that. I think "gossip" (terrible name) should be a synthesis of dunk and dredge with low effort allowed, and counter can be an "effort dunk" comm. That is what I personally would want, a fun comm and a more effort focused debunk comm, that way we keep both camps as happy as I think we can.
My full stance however is that, more than what I prefer, it should be put to a vote, with both dunk and gossip corrected to better names regardless of outcome.
I agree it should be put to a vote. The dunk/dredge got split up because people perceived a difference between what got posted and honestly I get it. I don't think lining those back up would be popular or productive, they got split for a reason.
Apart from the thing about dunking I also just think the requirement of "effort" is a bad idea if you want an active comm - which is what I think one should want, when one replaces an active comm. We've tried that so many times. This just feels like the 4th attempt at making c/agitprop happen.
That's always the risk, losing engagement by requiring effort, which is why I think dropping the effort requirements for "gossip" and allowing dunk/dredge synthesis is a good move to preserve that if this passes.
I'm a new user here, so I get that I don't have the same history with this site that others have, nor do I have the same background knowledge. I suppose in retrospect I could have held my tongue to see what others were saying before jumping to give my own thoughts, but hindsight is 20/20 and at the end of the day this isn't that serious.
Nah I'm glad you didn't and you shouldn't have. Powerusers are a fuck and you have as much a right as anyone else to speak up. In some ways more, especially if the admins seek to foster growth. Then the input of new users is very important.
I appreciate that, though I do think context is important from longer-time users, like the previous struggles.
Both sidesism, but based?
More like, intersectionality? Kinda?
just wanted to tell you and @[email protected] that I really appreciated reading this exchange ❤️ thank you both.
Awww, thank you!
<3