this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2024

72 points (97.4% liked)

World News

395 readers

312 users here now

Rules:

Be a decent person
No spam
Add the byline, or write a line or two in the body about the article.

founded 2 months ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

‘It was carnage’: students describe suspected mass food poisoning at New Zealand university (www.theguardian.com)

submitted 1 month ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

19 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Reports of vomit streaming down windows as more than 100 University of Canterbury students fall ill, with cause of stomach bug being investigated

top 19 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (5 children)

Carnage is a real word, and it's definition isn't broad enough to encompass a mass vomiting and diarrhea event.

carnage /kär′nĭj/ noun

Massive slaughter, as in war; a massacre. Corpses, especially of those killed in battle. Flesh of slain animals or men.

Corpses, especially of those killed in battle. Flesh of slain animals or men.

Flesh of slain animals or men.

I say this not to be pedantic, but because I had to read the article to confirm this wasn't a mass death event.... because words matter.

Doesn't matter that it was a quote, the editor shouldn't have run with it. Find another quote, or use your own words. JFC.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

Nobody thinks people are getting literally "slammed" when it's in an article title. Have you ever used or seen "decimated" to mean something other than "Every 10th man in a roman cohort was executed"? It's hyperbole, metaphor, a play on words.

Here's an article not describing mass death, but uses "carnage," as cited by Merriam Webster in their online definition for "carnage," emphasis mine:

In practice, Argentinian Cami Nogueira did take a heavy slam that resulted in a concussion and broken nose, and doctors advised her not to keep riding while she recovered.
But some level of carnage is typical amongst the men that compete at Rampage, too. The reigning champion, Cam Zink, was evacuated by helicopter with broken ribs and a punctured lung after crashing during the men’s competition on Saturday.

https://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/biking/redbull-rampage-recap-2024-women/

Carnage can mean any sort of chaos or harm coming to a group of people. I don't see the use in pedantically hating on colorful language or simple literary devices.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Context matters a lot here, because they could easily have been talking about 100 dead, not 100 icky. This is clearly a context where using death as a metaphor is beyond inappropriate. There are at least two The Office (USA) gags about exactly that concept.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I didn't think one second those students died in a war because of food poisoning.

It's also put in quotes, which implies they're quoting a person that was at the scene.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Any editor that uses the word "slammed" in it's current cliche slang context, should be immediately fired.

The fact that you're defending that overwrought example of the degeneration of our media, and moreso, citing it as why this particular butchering of the English language is actually correct, is disheartening.

You can cite all of the other poorly written articles you want, stacking wrongs upon wrongs, won't make this right.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

This is a "get off my lawn" take. The language is not degenerating, it is evolving, as it always has and always will while people whine about kids these days and the way they speak. They quoted a student who correctly and metaphorically described the scene as carnage. This isn't even a good example of "butchering" the English language -- again, it's just hyperbole.

Is slang "butchering" the language? Acronyms, initialisms? What about pidgin or creole?

e: I can almost promise you didn't read that "poorly written" article, you just didn't like the quote. It was found by reading the dictionary

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Butchering language is an example of slang with a well-established context. But more than that, you're not going to confuse my use of butchering when it's discussing the concept of language.

Saying a scene is full of carnage, directly implies it resembles a war zone, mass shooting, or an explosion. Not 100 kids shitting themselves from a foodborne illness outbreak.

What if the headline said "It was an orgy of bodily fluids...". This is called poor editorial discretion, and while that also could technically be understood to be accurate, it would also be editorial malpractice.

Oh, and lol. Seriously? What makes you think I didn't spend 90 seconds reading that article about the mass food poisoning event....?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I would describe 100 people shitting themselves and throwing up as carnage lol. It's not the same carnage left by a warzone, or the carnage left in the wake of a black friday sale, or the carnage that happens in a 10 car pileup.

You can take issue with "slammed" being overused or "carnage" being too flashy or something, but to say it amounts to malpractice and is a result of stupidity or low standards is not really fair imo. People use metaphorical language and hyperbole. It's fine and normal

Also, I linked another article using carnage "incorrectly" and I thought that is what you were referring to. The writing quality is fine so I was not sure why you said it was low

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I haven't had to write in a news style too often, but headlines (from AP guidelines at least) are meant to stand entirely on their own and without context.

While I agree that language can and should change, the use of hyperbole, slang, or cliches in a headline can negatively impact the clarity of the headline, which is most important.

Does something like decimate or carnage have two widely accepted meanings now? Then as an editor, I would caution against their use in a headline. Something like "Hundreds sickened in suspected mass food poisoning at New Zealand university" seems fine and is without clickbait.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Not a bad point. I think the quotation marks and the subject matter made it clear. However, if there is this much ambiguity in interpretation I think it could be changed justifiably. I still don't think this is some kind of egregious sin, though

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 month ago (1 children)

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/carnage

(figurative, slang) Any chaotic situation.

It also has slang usages, but I agree that in this context it shouldn't have been used in the headline.

[–] [email protected] -4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

So what? Are you saying that all slang is appropriate when reporting on real world events? Even if it completely changes the context of the article to mean something entirely different?

This is The Guardian, not a blog post.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

Yes, common language is appropriate in reporting. Especially when the audience is common people.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 month ago

Your reading comprehension needs some work. I was basically agreeing with you, but you seem more interested in being outraged, so whatever...

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

Would certainly agree it is an interesting use of it. Although the mentioning of food poisoning meant that I assumed it was toilet bowl carnage.

Also I have an Oxford English Dictionary subscription through the library, and it looks like this term has been misused for a hundred years. In case someone is curious:

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

It's a quote. Those little things around the sentence have a meaning.

'It was Carnage': Students describe...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago

Fr. Bro seems to have no context awareness. Lol

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago

You do understand the importance of editors in a newspaper, and their role in crafting headlines for articles....right?

Simply because a student said it, doesn't mean it should be included in a headline, especially if use misrepresents situation i.e. a battlefield or terrorist attack, and not everyone just shitting their guts out.

Editorial discretion and competence, it has meaning. Or, at least, it should.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago

I know it’s a stretch, and certainly not what the author intended - but flesh of slain animals could just a way to refer to cooked meat in whatever tainted meals caused the poisoning? 🤔