this post was submitted on 19 Aug 2024
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Popular iPad design app Procreate is coming out against generative AI, and has vowed never to introduce generative AI features into its products. The company said on its website that although machine learning is a “compelling technology with a lot of merit,” the current path that generative AI is on is wrong for its platform. 

Procreate goes on to say that it’s not chasing a technology that is a threat to human creativity, even though this may make the company “seem at risk of being left behind.”

Procreate CEO James Cuda released an even stronger statement against the technology in a video posted to X on Monday.

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[–] [email protected] 144 points 2 months ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 47 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I don't trust them. They better fire him and hire a Jim Abacus.

[–] [email protected] 71 points 2 months ago (1 children)

The CEO should ideally have the exact same name as the company. Like Tim Apple.

Or Sam Sung.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

The more you buy, the more you save!

[–] [email protected] 55 points 2 months ago (4 children)

As with everything the problem is not AI technology the problem is capitalism.

End capitalism and suddenly being able to share and openly use everyone's work for free becomes a beautiful thing.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I agree, but as long as we still have capitalism I support measures that at least slow down the destructiveness of capitalism. AI is like a new powertool in capitalism's arsenal to dismantle our humanity. Sure we can use it for cool things as well. But right now it's used mostly to automate stuff that makes us human - art, music and so on. Not useful stuff like loading the dishwasher for me. More like writing a letter for me to invite my friends to my birthday. Very cool. But maybe the work I put in doing this myself is making my friends feel appreciated?

Edit: It's also nice to at least have an app that takes this maximalist approach. Then people can choose. If they're half-assing it there will be more and more ai-features creeping in over time. One compromise after the next until it's like all the other apps. It's also important to have such a maximalist stand in order to gauge the scale in a way.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago

This, over and over again.

Going against AI is being a luddite, not aware of the core underlying issue.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

No doubt his decision was helped by the fact that you can't really fit full image generation AI on iPads - for example Stable Diffusion needs at the very least 6GB of GPU memory to work.

That said, since what they sell is a design app, I applaud him for siding with the interests of at least some of his users.

PS: Is it just me that finds it funny that the guy's last name is "Cuda" and CUDA is the Nvidia technology for running computing on their GPUs and hence widelly used for this kind of AI?

[–] [email protected] 46 points 2 months ago (1 children)

They're all run on cloud, for commercial products.

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[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago (2 children)

you can't really fit full image generation AI on iPads - for example Stable Diffusion needs at the very least 6GB of GPU memory to work.

You can currently run Stable Diffusion and Flux on iPads and iPhones with the Draw Things app. Including LoRAs and TIs and ControlNet and a whole bunch of other options I'm too green to understand.

Technically the app even runs on relatively old devices, though I imagine only at lower resolutions and probably takes ages.

But in my limited experience it works quite well on an iPad Pro and an iPhone 13 Pro.

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[–] [email protected] 45 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Procreate is amazing. I bought it for my neurodivergent daughter and used it as a non-destructive coloring book.

I’d grab a line drawing of a character that she wanted to color from a google image search, add it to the background layer, lock the background so she can’t accidentally move or erase it, then have her color on the layer above it using the multiply so the black lines can’t be painted over. She got the point where she prefers to have the colorized version alongside the black and white so she can grab the colors from the original and do fun stuff like mimic its shading and copy paste in elements that might have been too difficult for her to render. Honestly, she barely speaks but on that program, she’s better than most adults already even at age 8. Her work looks utterly perfect and she knows a lot of advanced blending and cloning stuff that traditional media artists don’t usually know.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

That's heartwarming. Good luck to her! (and you)

You're a great techno-parent

[–] [email protected] 10 points 2 months ago

Thanks. I try my best. 😊

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 months ago

I love Procreate very much buT WHY CAN NOT I MAKE A BÉZIER CURVE OR ADD TEXT ON MY IPAD PRO AAAA

[–] [email protected] 32 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (6 children)

Built on a foundation of theft

Sums up all AI

EDIT: meant all gen AI

[–] [email protected] 23 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Does it? I worked on training a classifier and a generative model on freely available galaxy images taken by Hubble and labelled in a citizen science approach. Where's the theft?

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I assume you mean all generative AI? Because I don't think AI that autonomously learns to play Super Mario is theft https://youtu.be/qv6UVOQ0F44

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

Nintendo probably thinks it's theft lol

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

No, it sums up a very specific type of AI...

Blanket statement are dumb.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (13 children)

Can you explain how you came to that conclusion?

The way I understand it, generative AI training is more like a single person analyzing art at impossibly fast speeds, then using said art as inspiration to create new art at impossibly fast speeds.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago

That's a blanket statement. While I understand the sentiment, what about the thousands of "AIs" trained on private, proprietary data for personal or private use by organizations that own the said data. It's the not the technology but the lack of regulation and misaligned incentives.

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[–] [email protected] 30 points 2 months ago

While a honorable move, "never" doesn't exist in a world based on quarterly financials...

[–] [email protected] 28 points 2 months ago (24 children)

Generative AI steals art.

Procreate's customers are artists.

Stands to reason you don't piss your customer base off.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 2 months ago

Never eh? Well someone won’t exist under the same name/promise in decade or two.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

That stance will change if they ever get acquired. Might even get the chance to see James Cuda try and walk back this stance in a few years.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago

So definitely gonna have AI baked in by next year.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (3 children)

Didn't krita say the same thing at one time?

It's currently one of the best programs to generate AI art using self hosted models.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Ironically, I think AI may prove to be most useful in video games.

Not to outright replace writers, but so they instead focus on feeding backstory to AI so it essentially becomes the characters they’ve created.

I just think it’s going to be inevitable and the only possible option for a game where the player truly chooses the story.

I just can’t be interested in multiple choice games where you know that your choice doesn’t matter. If a character dies from option a, then option b, c, and d kill them as well.

Realising that as a kid instantly ruined telltale games for me, but I think AI used in the right way could solve that problem, to at least some degree.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yeah, ultimately a lof of devs are trying to make "story generators" relying on the user's imagination to fill in the blanks, hence rimworld is so popular.

There's a business/technical model where "local" llms would kinda work for this too, if you set it up like the Kobold Horde. So the dev hosts a few GPU instances for GPUs that can't handle the local LLM, but users with beefy PCs also generate responses for other users (optionally, with a low priority) in a self hosted horde.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 2 months ago

Very good news for artists. AI image generation is founded upon art theft, and art theft is something that artists are not fond of, so it's really nice to see the developer being open about his respect to the artists who use the app!

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