this post was submitted on 14 Jul 2024
393 points (87.4% liked)

politics

19144 readers
2860 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.

Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.

Example:

  1. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  2. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  3. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
  4. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  5. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

The Democratic Socialists of America pulled its endorsement of Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez of New York this week, accusing the progressive congresswoman of being insufficiently supportive of the Palestinian cause and efforts to end the war in Gaza..

Her approach has increasingly strained her relationship with some of the left’s most strident critics of Israel. When she rallied last month in the Bronx with Senator Bernie Sanders and Representative Jamaal Bowman, dozens of pro-Palestinian demonstrators angry over her endorsement of Mr. Biden chanted “You’re a fraud, A.O.C.”

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 212 points 4 months ago (21 children)

If you're getting angry at Bernie and AOC, you're probably on the wrong side of an issue

[–] [email protected] 29 points 4 months ago (3 children)

I may be dumb, but I actually trust those two, unlike every other politician, I feel like if they are making strange decisions they must know something we don't...

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago

They've certainly built up the benefit of the doubt, especially Bernie.

Their conduct behooves anyone to look into and fully understand what they're doing before decrying them for a single act they instinctually might disagree with.

Especially a criticism like "haven't done enough".

I can't imagine any "haven't done enough" that overturns all of the very important work either of them have done or are doing.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (20 replies)
[–] [email protected] 126 points 4 months ago (33 children)

Common DSA L.

Fucking idiots. Pulling your endorsement of one of the top fucking 5% of most Pro-Palestinian Congresscritters for being INSUFFICIENTLY pro-Palestine.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 4 months ago

Yeah they chose quite the time to make the perfect the enemy of the good

load more comments (32 replies)
[–] [email protected] 88 points 4 months ago (6 children)

left wing is so busy ripping itself apart while right has fully consolidated, good luck winning elections. This is practically handing POTUS45 his POTUS47 title. US left wing always picks wrong timing to settle internal scores which is why it's always flatfooted and toothless.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

No, no, THIS time handing over power to fascists will DEFINITELY make the left in this country strong.

/s since that's literally what's being said by these fucking people who go on about how the ~~national rebirth~~ 'reconstruction' of the political environment under a Trump regime is how we get progressive victories.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 4 months ago (14 children)

The communist leader in Germany before Hitler took over said that failure of the nazi government would help convince people to vote for communism in the next election; he was subsequently killed in a concentration camp.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I mean he was basically right. The social democrats took 30% and the Nazis got 0% in the next election

In 1949 after Germany's defeat in WWII.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (13 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

In reality I have never encountered people who strictly define themselves as “leftist”, “liberal”, “progressive”, “socialist”, “democratic socialist”, “communist”, “center-left”, “moderate left”, etc.

seems like an attempt to drive wedges. Remember: We are all for a viable candidate that advances those issues even partially, versus the polar opposite.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago (1 children)

while right has fully consolidated

Well, apart from the literal assassination attempt.............

The right has so much infighting that it's dirty to even call them 'the right' as if it's a single group. If the US weren't using a FPTP system with the threat of vote spoiling, it would be much clearer just how split all political factions really are. Neo-Nazis have been calling Trump "Zion Don" for the past ten years and crying about all his links to da jooz and blags, the Libertarians disagree so much that about 2 million of them voted their own party instead of Rep or Dem in 2020. There's even PACs like the Lincoln Project.

The reason it's important to recognize this is that it's important to know their weaknesses. They're not all one homogeneous group, and many of them literally want to kill each other.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 55 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (23 children)

Can I just say FUCK The Democratic Socialists of America, those scumbags can eat a bag of dicks.

Just look at their stances, views, and activities:

  • They blame the US for the Russian invasion of Ukraine
  • They want the US to pressure Ukraine to surrender to Russia under the guise "negotiations"
  • They want the US to leave NATO
  • They support the Venezuelan dictator, Maduro, so much that they literally sent a fucking delegation there to meet him
  • They organized a tone deaf pro-Palestinian rally on Oct 8th right after the attacks when the world was still in shock
  • They outright want the destruction of Israel. Not a two state solution, not coexistence, but the eradication of Israel
  • They quite literally want open borders
  • The organization is full of full blown vile Marxists who to "abolish capitalism" and establish socialism
  • They condemn social democracy
  • In 2016 they refused to endorse Hillary and spearheaded the movements that called for people to boycott voting Democrat, which led to Trump winning
  • In 2020 they refused to endorse Biden and spearheaded the movements that called for people to boycott voting Democrat, which helped Trump make the election closer than it should've been
  • In 2024 they're doing the same exact thing by refusing to endorse Biden again

They have ALWAYS simped for all the dictators and authoritarian regimes. They have always had the most brain dead stances on foreign policy issues. They subscribe to a colossal failure of an ideology, and their interests are not with the US succeeding. They are nothing more than assets of our foreign adversaries.

The organization and movement at large is nothing more than the far left and the most whacko of Bernie Supporters that even he is uncomfortable with. I'm glad AOC went from being a fringe extremist politician to becoming more pragmatic and moderate. She has been winning me over more and more lately, and this just proves that she's moving in the right direction. Once again, the DSA can get fucked.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 4 months ago (13 children)

The organization is full of full blown vile Marxists who to “abolish capitalism” and establish socialism

Well, yeah, they're socialists. Why shouldn't they want to abolish capitalism and establish socialism? There's nothing vile about that.

They outright want the destruction of Israel.

The dissolution of the state of Israel. Their worldview understands it as a settler-colonial ethnostate, just like former apartheid South Africa was. Jews, Christians, Muslims and others co-existed in Palestine before the Zionist state of Israel was established, the two-state situation is segregation caused by the establishment of a Zionist regime.

They organized a tone deaf pro-Palestinian rally on Oct 8th right after the attacks when the world was still in shock

That is a perfectly-appropriate time to rally support. They are pro-Palestinian and wanted to make it clear that people believed the resistance was supported, regardless of whether they are critical of the methods. The mass media gets to have its voice immediately, so rallies should not wait either.

They condemn social democracy

Yes. Democratic socialists are not capitalists and would not consider liberal democracy (especially the US version!) a working form of democracy, and don't consider social capitalist parties within it to be effective because they must work within a broken system. Social democracy is a false hope to them.

And their interests are not with the US succeeding, they are nothing more than assets of our foreign adversaries.

Most socialists will understand the US as a settler-colonial imperialist state from day 1, so yes, their interests are ultimately that the US (as we know it) should stop being imperial terrorists that most of the world (including state allies) hate. But to call that being "nothing more than assets of our foreign adversaries" is ignorant of the very real and growing discontent with the US's own borders. A lot of US citizens hate the US governments and how they work, and to blame that on foreign adversaries will ultimately prevent them from being solved and prevent their numbers growing.

[–] [email protected] 19 points 4 months ago (1 children)

"A vote for Bart is a vote for anarchy!"

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (12 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago

The organization is full of full blown vile Marxists who to “abolish capitalism” and establish socialism

Holy shit, the democratic socialists of america are socialists

[–] [email protected] 15 points 4 months ago (3 children)

Choose love, not hate:

"You can't talk about solving the economic problem of the Negro without talking about billions of dollars. You can't talk about ending the slums without first saying profit must be taken out of slums. You're really tampering and getting on dangerous ground because you are messing with folk then. You are messing with captains of industry. Now this means that we are treading in difficult water, because it really means that we are saying that something is wrong with capitalism. There must be a better distribution of wealth, and maybe America must move toward a democratic socialism."

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago (7 children)

Man I was with you until you suggested abolishing capitalism was a bad thing. Why is that a bad thing?

load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (19 replies)
[–] [email protected] 48 points 4 months ago (42 children)

AOC's national endorsement was (and still is) preventing DSA from working on solidarity with Palestinian liberation organizations across the country. I get that to a lot of people, AOC is the ideal reformist Democrat, but that's really just a condemnation of how bad even the 'good' Democrats are.

From DSA's statement on the issue:

"However, members have raised their concerns regarding a number of her votes, including a vote in favor of H.Res.888, conflating opposition to Israel’s “right to exist” with antisemitism. AOC also co-signed a press release on April 20, 2024, that “support[s] strengthening the Iron Dome and other defense systems”

Finally, AOC recently hosted a public panel with leaders from the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, lobbyists for the IHRA definition of antisemitism. On this panel, anti-Zionism and antisemitism were conflated and boycotting Zionist institutions was condemned. This sponsorship is a deep betrayal to all those who’ve risked their welfare to fight Israeli apartheid and genocide through political and direct action in recent months, and in decades past."

Of course that behavior got her unendorsed. It's fine if you, random Lemmy users, like her, but I'm glad that explicit workers-owning-the-means-of-production socialists are holding their endorsed electeds accountable. That shit shouldn't fly.

load more comments (42 replies)
[–] [email protected] 42 points 4 months ago (10 children)

I suspect she's going to get reelected in spite of losing their endorsement

[–] [email protected] 26 points 4 months ago

She already won three weeks ago before they dropped her so it's going to be a while until the next one.

load more comments (9 replies)
[–] [email protected] 35 points 4 months ago (2 children)

I don't understand the DSA's purpose if it is just to funnel people into the Dem party. Their views will never line up with the corporate party.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

They're there to undermine progressives by pretending to be them. It's a way of taking over and deflecting the movement.

An example would be when Shontel Brown beat Nina Turner in Ohio. Brown took money from Republican donors and corporations, yet she got endorsed by "progressive" groups to help her against Turner, who is an actual grass-roots funded progressive.

Same with Mondaire Jones backstabbing Jamaal Bowman (who had defended Jones in the past when he was under attack by the establishment).

This is how Democrats try to co-opt what they can't control, and why it's critically important that voters make it a habit to monitor their candidates funding. The money will always tell the true story.

(Opensecrets.org is a great resource for tracking what groups politicians get their money from)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 34 points 4 months ago (47 children)

This is a good example of why I left DSA. They are averse to pragmatism. They see the world in purely theoretical terms. They form their policies according to some hypothetical ideal, instead of reality.

load more comments (47 replies)
[–] [email protected] 30 points 4 months ago

Letting good be the enemy of great.

[–] [email protected] 23 points 4 months ago (4 children)

Yeah bruh, I’m a pragmatist. Israel sucks, but even more Palestinians will die unless we keep trump and the republican traitor filth out of office.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 months ago (14 children)

Oh no the literal tankies are against her what will she do? These people are not Democratic socialists, they're not even leftists. These people suck the dick of totalitarianism.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 4 months ago (7 children)

What does tankie mean to you in this context? Actually curious, because I don't get it.. it's starting to become like "woke" in my mind.

load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (13 replies)
[–] [email protected] 20 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (2 children)

Maybe take the time to read the DSA statement on this endorsement before reading this comment chain and forming opinions.

In the last several months, thousands of DSA members provided input about the prospect of a national endorsement through town halls, meetings, and engaging in their chapters’ discussions, and AOC was invited to speak at a member forum. Many members have supported national endorsement while at the same time demanding that AOC demonstrate a higher level of commitment to Palestinian liberation, self-determination, and the immediate end to the heinous genocide in Gaza committed by Israel that aligns with DSA’s positions and expectations of socialists in office.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (21 children)

Good. No compromise on genocide. Never again means never again.

This gives me some hope for the DSA.

And don’t come at me with “pragmatism”. The pragmatists supported the Nazis.

load more comments (21 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›