once you control truth, you can get away with anything.
this post was submitted on 22 Apr 2024
159 points (96.0% liked)
World News
39127 readers
2875 users here now
A community for discussing events around the World
Rules:
-
Rule 1: posts have the following requirements:
- Post news articles only
- Video links are NOT articles and will be removed.
- Title must match the article headline
- Not United States Internal News
- Recent (Past 30 Days)
- Screenshots/links to other social media sites (Twitter/X/Facebook/Youtube/reddit, etc.) are explicitly forbidden, as are link shorteners.
-
Rule 2: Do not copy the entire article into your post. The key points in 1-2 paragraphs is allowed (even encouraged!), but large segments of articles posted in the body will result in the post being removed. If you have to stop and think "Is this fair use?", it probably isn't. Archive links, especially the ones created on link submission, are absolutely allowed but those that avoid paywalls are not.
-
Rule 3: Opinions articles, or Articles based on misinformation/propaganda may be removed. Sources that have a Low or Very Low factual reporting rating or MBFC Credibility Rating may be removed.
-
Rule 4: Posts or comments that are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist, anti-religious, or ableist will be removed. “Ironic” prejudice is just prejudiced.
-
Posts and comments must abide by the lemmy.world terms of service UPDATED AS OF 10/19
-
Rule 5: Keep it civil. It's OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It's NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
-
Rule 6: Memes, spam, other low effort posting, reposts, misinformation, advocating violence, off-topic, trolling, offensive, regarding the moderators or meta in content may be removed at any time.
-
Rule 7: We didn't USED to need a rule about how many posts one could make in a day, then someone posted NINETEEN articles in a single day. Not comments, FULL ARTICLES. If you're posting more than say, 10 or so, consider going outside and touching grass. We reserve the right to limit over-posting so a single user does not dominate the front page.
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
Lemmy World Partners
News [email protected]
Politics [email protected]
World Politics [email protected]
Recommendations
For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/
- Consider including the article’s mediabiasfactcheck.com/ link
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
Shocked! I'm shocked!
I got to admit. I was overly dismissive of the conspiracy theorists.
Well those pushing that theory weren’t basing it off of true suspicion and thorough research that ended when this possible nexus was closed off and from that they deduced that the likely vector of the virus was behind authoritarian informational blockades.
They said, “well china! They probably did it on purpose!” That was the extent of it. And anyone that searched “wuhan infectious disease lab” found one…and that was it. A conspiracy theory is born. You throw enough stones, ones liable to hit something.
I mean it was a biolab studying coronaviruses RIGHT NEXT to ground zero for a coronavirus. Sure some conspiracy nuts took it further, but come on, thats like being found holding a bloody knife right next to a crime scene where someone was stabbed
Well, if it were that simple, then they would be able to say the evidence speaks to that as the most likely origin. But it’s also possible it came from illegal wildlife trade. Both are entirely possible. So it’s more like two people, both with blood on their hands, both having destroyed the knives or stopped them from being found, both entirely plausible killers.
I mean, thats kind if my point, a couple of the theories werent without merit
In hindsight, yeah. But I’m just saying I don’t think that changes the nature of almost all online conspiracy theories. Maybe there are old school conspiracy theorists that pull from actual relevant available data, file FOIA requests and actually study the topic.
But…I’ve never found any. It’s a sea of people throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. And because it’s the internet and has a worldwide reach, a lot of shit tends to stick. Doesn’t mean we should take them any more seriously than writing them off lol
Just because a lot of theories are garbage doesnt mean all of them were though. Again, the lab origin and wet market origin theories were both legit plausible even in the moment.
But my point is, if you’re digging in a huge pool of human excrement and you happen upon a dollar, it doesn’t mean there’s a greater likelihood that the massive mound of shit is any more likely to ever produce another dollar.
I guess what I’m saying is even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you shouldn’t ever trust it to give you the time. I don’t know why I’m using so many metaphors, but these internet conspiracy theories may land in the ballpark every once in a while, but it doesn’t mean there were good intentions or any greater likelihood than pure chance that you’ll ever get another theory close to the truth. Lending credence—or even thinking there’s a chance you should learn that maybe you were too hard on the unhinged people with incredibly dicey morals—to any future conspiracy theory is a bad road to go down.
Yeah, they were kinda possibly putting forward a plausible theory here. But their goal wasn’t to even do that. It was to sow distrust, to be a contrarian and make up a different reality for less than solid moral reasons. If someone goes into every single movie theater and yells out that they think the main character has been dreaming the whole time, eventually they’ll be right. That doesn’t make them great at predicting plots or writing scripts. Never think you should listen to that person or give them the benefit of the doubt more often. See what I’m trying to say?
"Yeah, they were kinda possibly putting forward a plausible theory here. But their goal wasn’t to even do that. It was to sow distrust,"
There is no they. The internet is visited by damn near the entire planet daily. There isnt one person or group of people responsible for all theories. And not all theories are alike. Where there bad faith actors trying to sow discord? Damn right there were. Where there conspiracy inclined people who believe in a cabal of lizard people ruling the world from the shadows. Definitely where. Where they the only people posing questions and possible answers as to what happened to start a global pandemic that quarantined the world for 2+ years? Hell no they werent. Stop lumping all theories together, thats like comparing apples and mountain lions because they are both comprised of atoms. Each theory should be looked at on its own merit, and once again, Coronavirus laboratory near ground zero, and wet markets near same, which have been a known threat for disease to jump from animals to humans for a while before the pandemic, where both theories that held ground on their own merit.
But the conspiracy community and the collection of theories they’ve put out since, like, 2002, have been almost universally way off the mark. Like I said, maybe there are other places where serious people put forth serious theories based on more than just vibes and super questionable motives, but I’ve never found one.
There has been a serious lurch to the right since about 2007 in the conspiracy-verse. So it’s all based on racism and…well, mostly just that. Some xenophobia too. My point is, I can’t think of one other conspiracy I’ve heard since or before that had even a shred of credibility to it.
Being skeptical and being a conspiracy theorist are not the same thing. I’m skeptical. Incredibly skeptical. But skepticism leads to critical thinking, which the conspiracy theorists lack. They have an answer and work backwards. Almost always. “China is responsible…so…oh look, there was a lab right there! See, it was a conspiracy all along!” That isn’t the same thing as the scientists/virologists tracing an infection back to its source and concluding that it’s entirely plausible there was a lab leak.
Can you think of another conspiracy theory since 2001 that came close to the mark? I can think of plenty of skeptic fare that did: social media being used to create elaborate profiles on us, cell phones/smart devices being used to spy on us, advertising manipulating us…these are not conspiracy theories. But they’re all true. They’re examples of healthy skepticism that help us lead our lives away from unwanted control, mostly by major corporations.
Conspiracy theories are sovcits, 9/11 was an inside job, sandy hook, false flag, the government is going to put us all in fema camps, the vaccine will kill us all in 2 years, blah blah blah.
This is obviously an oversimplification and the line gets blurred somewhere in the middle where skepticism is based on almost nothing, yet is firmly held. That is where you start getting into conspiracy land. When you start creating reasoning to build a story around your skepticism is where the problem arise. Maybe that’s where we’re butting up against each other.
I think you are waaaaayyyy too focussed on what the conspiracy nuts think. I cant tell you when the conspiracy theorists were right because I dont listen to them. Once again, I saw China being insanely tight lipped against what happened at/with the start of Covid, and saw two theories, from no specific source, point to either wet markets and bats/pengolins, or a high level biohazard lab that was near ground zero, which on further read seemed to be specifically studying Coronavirus's, and those two theories got marked a plausible, based solely on their merit
Edit: Y'know what tho? I reread the start of this conversation and it was specifically about Conspiracy Theorists, so I guess I'm the one in the wrong here. You're right in that the only time they end up being right is in the broken clock sense
I get you. Yeah, seemed we were having a miscommunication. Take care
Yeah, sorry about that! You take care as well!
This is the best summary I could come up with:
BEIJING (AP) — The hunt for the origins of COVID-19 has gone dark in China, the victim of political infighting after a series of stalled and thwarted attempts to find the source of the virus that killed millions and paralyzed the world for months.
The Chinese government froze meaningful domestic and international efforts to trace the virus from the first weeks of the outbreak, despite statements supporting open scientific inquiry, an Associated Press investigation found.
The investigation drew on thousands of pages of undisclosed emails and documents and dozens of interviews that showed the freeze began far earlier than previously known and involved political and scientific infighting in China as much as international finger-pointing.
But perhaps local officials simply feared for their jobs, with memories of firings after the 2003 SARS outbreak still vivid, said Ray Yip, the founding head of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention outpost in China.
In early February 2020, some of the West’s leading scientists, headed by Dr. Jeremy Farrar, then at Britain’s Wellcome Trust, and Dr. Anthony Fauci, then director of the U.S. National Institutes of Health, banded together to assess the origins of the virus in calls, a Slack channel and emails.
Liang is an epidemiologist close to top Chinese officials and China’s Foreign Ministry who is widely seen as pushing the party line, not science-backed policies, according to nine people familiar with the situation who declined to be identified to speak on a sensitive subject.
The original article contains 2,804 words, the summary contains 245 words. Saved 91%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Worst thing about this is that China gets to point fingers and claim racism while all East Asians abroad are lumped in with the CCP collaborators.