this post was submitted on 29 Mar 2024
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883
Please, for the love of God, VOTE! (pawb.social)
submitted 7 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I agree, we really need some leftists who have the backbone of MLK.

Now let me say a word for those of you who are on strike. You’ve been out now for a number of days. But don’t despair. Nothing worthwhile is gained without sacrifice. The thing for you to do is stay together. Say to everybody in this community that you’re going to stick it out to the end until every demand is met. And that you’re going to say, “We ain’t going to let nobody turn us around.” Let it be known everywhere that along with wages and all of the other securities that you are struggling for, you’re also struggling for the right to organize and be recognized…

We can all get more together than we can apart. This is the way to gain power. Power is the ability to achieve purpose. Power is the ability to effect change. We need power…

Now the other thing is that nothing is gained without pressure. Don’t let anybody tell you to go back on your job and paternalistically say, now, “You’re my man, and I’m going to do the right thing for you if you’ll just come back on the job.” Don’t go back on the job until the demands are met. Never forget that freedom is not something that must be demanded by the oppressor. It is something that must be demanded by the oppressed. Freedom is not some lavish dish that the power structure and the white forces imparted with making positions will voluntarily hand down on a silver platter while the Negro merely furnishes the appetite.

If we are going to get equality, if we are going to get adequate wages, we are going to have to struggle for it. Now, you know what, you may have to escalate the struggle a bit. If they keep refusing, and they will not recognize the union, and will not decree further check-off for the collection of dues, I’m telling you what you ought to do, and you’re together here enough to do it. In a few days you ought to get together and just have a general work stoppage in the city of Memphis.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Now that shit will fire you up. Good stuff.

Notice he was very forceful and determined, but never said stupid stuff like "hurr let's get the guillotine!"

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Nor did he say "hurr it's your duty to vote for the lesser-evil!"

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well, it's completely irrelevant to the quote

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Lol wut? He's saying that power comes from solidarity, and with solidarity you make demands, and when you have power you do not relent until those demands are met. He's also saying that the harm caused by direct action in pursuit of liberty is justified, even when that harm is to everyone (as in the case of a general work stoppage in an entire city). That you don't want to see the relevance isn't something I can help.

The point isn't to cause the harm, it's to use the threat to gain concessions.

Say to everybody in this community that you’re going to stick it out to the end until every demand is met. And that you’re going to say, “We ain’t going to let nobody turn us around.

We can all get more together than we can apart. This is the way to gain power. Power is the ability to achieve purpose. Power is the ability to effect change. We need power…

If we are going to get equality, if we are going to get adequate wages, we are going to have to struggle for it. Now, you know what, you may have to escalate the struggle a bit. If they keep refusing, and they will not recognize the union, and will not decree further check-off for the collection of dues, I’m telling you what you ought to do, and you’re together here enough to do it. In a few days you ought to get together and just have a general work stoppage in the city of Memphis.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Yeah that's about unions, in active negotiations.

You are not in active negotiations. You are in the end game. You have very few possible choices, and holding out (not voting) does not empower a track of choices, or opportunity. It only silos you into a particular choice.

"Sticking it out" does not better your scenario, and especially does not better the scenario of the most at risk.

Quit bolding shit, I know how to read.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Nope, MLK acknowledges that protest is meant to bring them to negotiation, it's not just when you're "in negotiation"

This is exactly the type of direct action MLK is talking about. You just find it personally threatening, and far be it from me to suggest that's the point.

You may well ask, "Why direct action, why sit-ins, marches, and so forth? Isn't negotiation a better path?" You are exactly right in your call for negotiation. Indeed, this is the purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and establish such creative tension that a community that has consistently refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. I just referred to the creation of tension as a part of the work of the nonviolent resister. This may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word "tension." I have earnestly worked and preached against violent tension, but there is a type of constructive nonviolent tension that is necessary for growth. Just as Socrates felt that it was necessary to create a tension in the mind so that individuals could rise from the bondage of myths and half-truths to the unfettered realm of creative analysis and objective appraisal, we must see the need of having nonviolent gadflies to create the kind of tension in society that will help men to rise from the dark depths of prejudice and racism to the majestic heights of understanding and brotherhood. So, the purpose of direct action is to create a situation so crisis-packed that it will inevitably open the door to negotiation. We therefore concur with you in your call for negotiation. Too long has our beloved Southland been bogged down in the tragic attempt to live in monologue rather than dialogue

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (2 children)

You have no opportunity for negotiation, you have a binary choice in the upcoming election.

Edit also you included more text, I didn't declare verdict on everything MLK said, only that specific quote. Shitty behavior

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Well then. Youve handle this comment chain well. Bravo, comrade. Thanks for trying so hard, my hats off to u. The troll might be a lil fed, but this is a public forum and ur conversation is visible for all to see.

Replying to one of the comments a lil higher up for visibility, but i enjoyed all the way down. Pleasr dont stop preaching <3

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Hah I wouldn't actually wear the comrade title, I'm not that far left, but I do believe building a real progressive candidate is important, and a real third party would be great.

But I'm more a realist, and there certainly aren't a lot of options in this next election. That ship has sailed. All I really know is at-risk and marginalized folks are in GREATER danger with trump, so I'm all about avoiding that.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Sounds like a comrade to me. Your ideal society might not look like mine, but when it comes to it, you and i will need to be capable of standing/marching/striking together to make changes happen.

I will vote for the lesser of two evils to keep our ability to do all those things alive, and if streets get closed or the upper classes gets uncomfy bc leftists are trying to give workers somewhere better working conditions, i only ask that u underatand and respect those efforts as well and dont give in to corporate propaganda that the far left is evil, even if the road youd recommend is different.

Solidarity to u, solidarity to the working class, solidarity to the queer, and solidarity who wants any leftward movement from where we are, comrade.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Lol there's 7 months of negotiation left, wtf are you talking about "binary choices"

And I don't care if you think my behavior is shitty, or if you take issue with my agitation.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

No, the frontrunners are already decided. You are in an outcome restricted scenario weather you like it or not.

Edit trump or Biden will be your next president. How will you aid one of those 2?

Nothing else is possible regardless of your ideals

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Don't be dense.

Biden needs to move on this issue, otherwise he can't count on our vote. We all know Israel has crossed a line, even him. What's being asked is reasonable. It should be a simple choice for him.

Don't pretend you don't understand what's being asserted, dipshit.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Uncivil. Is that all you are?

You are approaching a 2 party, constrained system. Only one will win. How will you factor in?

Explain your choice, in detail.

And by choice, I mean voting action. Account for all byproducts and externalities.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

What choice was MLK making when he organized boycotts in Burmingham?

Why are you pretending like our choice is flexible, but Biden's is fixed? Why are you so eager to accept the binary as given instead of pushing back against a pair of clearly untenable options?

Instead of hounding people online to vote for Biden in 7 months, why aren't you protesting his events and pleading for him to reverse course on Israel?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You have no clue what I do with my live. Your voice is flexible for the future. Your choices in the upcoming election are limited to 2

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

And I 100% reserve the right to tell Biden to pound sand if he doesn't reverse course. And being loud about that ultimatum gives Biden the choice between continued support in genocide and being reelected.

I agree the second choice is better, if only Biden agreed himself.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Good for you, we all have that choice.

Just be aware choices have consequences.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (2 children)

I highly encourage you to press Biden to fix what he's broken if you feel strongly about him not losing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You know, as a member of the military, it's gonna be real interesting if your team follows what you do and we get the other guy as commander in chief again. I'm just saying, I'll probably survive, be fine even if I hide my beliefs again, but your smug "both sides bad" smirk will probably not last all that long with said other guy in charge. Unless you're into that, in which case, hey, I'll try to not be on duty wearing the jack boots as much as possible.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

Try not to get too excited there, bud

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

No, but he would probably say to vote for the candidate that mentions they're open up integration vs the candidate who wants to make slavery a thing again.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Except one of those candidates is in the position to take action now, but chooses not to.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Doesn't change the calculation.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

It changes what effective methods of protest you have, though.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Not really. It's a binary choice.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

"Nothing else exists outside this vote right now"

Jesus, read a history book or something

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

That's the entirety of what we're discussing. Biden or Trump. Binary choice. You're getting one of em.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Sure, but what each of those candidates does is flexible, and one of those candidates can fulfill some action in that role right now.

And since that candidate needs our votes, we have some degree of bargaining power over what that candidate chooses to do right now and for the next 7 months.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Do you?

If Biden doesn't stop helping Israel, you'll help the other guy get elected? What kind of bargain is that?

You're playing with fire by threatening that. It's a terrible, terrible gamble. If you lose, countless more people will die. Are you okay having that on your conscience?

This is the world's biggest trolley problem, and you're advocating for "don't pull the lever even though more people will die"

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

If Biden doesn't stop funding Israel in the next 7 months, i'll make that choice.

But making that choice now when I don't have to isn't just dumb, it's complicity.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

You're making that choice right now. If you stand on a hill with a megaphone shouting "GENOCIDE JOE GENOCIDE JOE!" for 8 months and then at the 11th hour decide to go "eh okay I'll vote for him", it's too late.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Are you aware of how protests work?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (2 children)

Are you aware of what splitting the vote is?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) (1 children)

Lol I thought I was choosing something today? Are we voting today? Did I miss it?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Now you're just being dense.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Who's being dense?

I'm not the one conflating protesting today with not voting for Biden I'm 7 months

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago (1 children)

I’m 7 months

I knew you were a preemie

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago

Hard to type with these tiny underdeveloped hands

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

if you're worried about splitting the vote, and you know people won't vote for joe because of his genocide, it's incumbent upon you to either get him to stop the genocide or support some other candidate.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

"If you're worried about splitting the vote, it's your job to split the vote"

Nice try commie

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

you know I'm not gonna vote with you, but the vote wouldn't be split if you'd vote with me

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

And you're still trying

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

my logic is undeniable

[–] [email protected] 1 points 7 months ago (1 children)

Not logic, but okay

[–] [email protected] 0 points 7 months ago

id know