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‘Andrew Tate is a symptom, not the problem’: why young men are turning against feminism (www.theguardian.com)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/news@lemmy.world
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Teachers describe a deterioration in behaviour and attitudes that has proved to be fertile terrain for misogynistic influencers

“As soon as I mention feminism, you can feel the shift in the room; they’re shuffling in their seats.” Mike Nicholson holds workshops with teenage boys about the challenges of impending manhood. Standing up for the sisterhood, it seems, is the last thing on their minds.

When Nicholson says he is a feminist himself, “I can see them look at me, like, ‘I used to like you.’”

Once Nicholson, whose programme is called Progressive Masculinity, unpacks the fact that feminism means equal rights and opportunities for women, many of the boys with whom he works are won over.

“A lot of it is bred from misunderstanding and how the word is smeared,” he says.

But he is battling against what he calls a “dominance-based model” of masculinity. “These old-fashioned, regressive ideas are having a renaissance, through your masculinity influencers – your grifters, like Andrew Tate.”

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[–] 7 points 2 years ago (3 children)

You are enabling them by talking out of your ass on their behalf. I mean, rigidly adhering to and strictly enforcing traditional gender roles is what feminism is all about, amirite?

When a man takes his child to the playground, and some mom there calls the cops on him for being near children while male, I suspect there's nothing about "traditional gender roles" going on here. But for a moment let's pretend there is. You're telling me that women are trying to gatekeep childcare in the same way men have tried to gatekeep, say, STEM jobs. Okay, why is it "That's their problem and they need to sort their shit out or else" when men do it, but "No we've got to go fix society together" when women do it? Is it because you're a god damned hypocrite?

I'm more likely to believe that, just as Republicans are told by their preachers that Democrats are baby eating evil demons, women are similarly told to believe men are all sexual predators. A man shows up and it's "okay, who's he here to rape?" If I were to ask you "Okay, what action does our innocent dad who's just taking his child out to play need to take to not have that happen to him?" Your response will almost certainly be "Oh I dunno, have you tried not being a rapist?" To which the reply will come back "Yep. I'm in my 36th year of not raping anyone. But I still get treated like this."

Naw man, women aren't responsible for how they think or act, ya gotta fix society. So, millennial dads have been stepping up, they're considerably more present in their children's lives than previous generations of men, way less likely to report having never changed a diaper, and they're treated like shit for it by women. This is not women's fault, it's "society."

I think it's society's fault that there are diaper changing stations in women's rooms but not men's rooms. That's society's fault, whatever agency is responsible for the ADA, that governs how wide bathroom doors have to be and how high light switches go above the floor needs to get on that shit.

What I have seen of feminism is it's okay for women to say "I miss when men died in wars" but it's not okay when men say "Get back in the kitchen." I've been often told - and NEVER shown - that feminism is about "equality." Which is why I ain't one. Feminists would rather have me as an enemy and a boogieman than an ally. I shall oblige.

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  • [+] -11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    Women aren't the ones in charge of society and they never have been. It's not like there's a matriarch that's telling women "men are all coming to kidnap your children". That's something created by the literal government in the form of the Stranger Danger propaganda campaign and then spread by mass media. Women didn't do that. I hate to break it to you, but men did.

    But it's also not your fault, just because other men did this.

    You're really confusing liberal feminism with feminism as a broader movement. Liberal feminists love to individualize sexism and claim that the cause of sexism is bad individuals. That's an incredibly wrong headed idea that fails to actually address the root causes of sexism (class society) and instead just heaps blame onto individual men for being baddies. Sadly, because we live in a liberal society, liberal feminism has become a dominant ideology and so then men like you see the obvious problems and just assume this applies to all feminism.

    And that's not your fault either. That's the fault of class society, again, which wants to atomize and individualize feminism so we don't build solidarity.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Women didn't do that. I hate to break it to you, but men did.

    That's the problem right there. Feminism (our at least your brand of feminism) somehow removes women from society absolving them from any responsibility of the negatives they may be a part of.

    At least in America the second most powerful group in society has always been white women so the idea that men have dictated all the negatives of American society is bullshit. How is it that men are responsible for 40% of slave owners being white women and 52% of Trump voters in 2016 being white women? It's 2024 at what point do we hold women responsible for still holding on to ass backwards gender roles and stereotypes when we have so much info that prove most if not all of it is bullshit?

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  • [+] -9 points 2 years ago*

    How is it that I can keep saying "it’s also not your fault, just because other men did this" and then you read this as "men are responsible"?

    At what point do you realize that I'm saying you shouldn't hold individuals responsible for structural problems or blame sexism on the actions of individual people? I keep saying this over and over, but the root of the problem is class society and is not just bad people having bad ideas. The world historical defeat of women was the consequence of the invention of private property and the modern family, but men aren't responsible for that and neither are women. Men who invented Stranger Danger were products of their material conditions. These are just the material forces at work. You're doing this liberal thing where you individualize the problem and think you can fight sexism by stopping sexist people, but the only way we can actually stop it is by breaking the material conditions that reproduce sexist ideology.

    Blaming women or men is unproductive. The problem, as I keep saying, is class society. As long as the reproduction of labor is relegated to women then both men and women are going to suffer, and that's not something that can be fixed by a individual simply not being sexist.

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