1046
Get to work, crackheads (lemmy.today)
submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by to c/lemmyshitpost@lemmy.world
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EDIT: since apparently a bunch of people woke up with the wrong foot this morning or forgot to check the group they’re in:

This is a joke. Do not steal or vandalize speed enforcement cameras (or anything else for that matter). That’s against the law and you will likely get arrested.

If you’re addicted to crack or any other drugs, please seek professional help.

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[–] 29 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (7 children)

Gotta enforce speed limits.

And these things don't shoot you if you look at them wrong – or are black.

Edit: "No, you can't just stick a camera worth a couple of thousand [local currency] next to the road, that takes photographic evidence of infractions. You gotta rip out the entire surface, redesign the sides and introduce a few sharp curves by demolishing a few blocks of buildings here and there. In the mean time speed is only enforced by violent cops who feel like you were speeding.

It's the only logical way."

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  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    And they fucking work!

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/annoying-thing-speed-cameras-ottawa-they-work-1.6786951

    https://driving.ca/column/lorraine/speed-cameras-work

    I can't believe that people don't want to see them installed in every school zones at least, if there's one place where you don't want people speeding it's there!

    "It's a road design issue!" Yeah? What's cheaper and can be done quicker, changing the road design or installing speed cameras?

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  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Yeah people not respecting speed zones around schools is a real problem. I can't believe how people drive, and I've always got some Dodge Ram or Ford F150 riding my ass because I'm driving the proper speed.

    Even if there was no posted speed limit, there are children everywhere and children are unpredictable.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago

    I mean, I agree people hating speed cameras is nonsense, just drive the speed limit! However, traffic calming is legit and makes the road a much safer place for pedestrians, and usually it's by narrowing the road, not widening it.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (23 children)

    They also can't testify in court, depriving accused speeders of their constitutional right to due process.

    But back to your first claim: "gotta enforce speed limits:" No, we do not. Speeding is a symptom of a street that was designed wrong to begin with. The correct solution is to fix the design, not install a speed camera as some sort of big brother band-aid.

    Edit: why do y'all apparently hate the idea of improving street design? As a former traffic engineer, I'm telling you that that's the only way to truly fix the problem of speeding. I don't get why that's controversial.

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  • [–] 20 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Sorry, but that is a gross misinterpretation. Drivers are not victims of an intrinsic speed devil that they cannot escape. They still choose to violate the speed limit in most cases.

    What was done in these countries is to acknowledge, that physical design is more effective as enforcement, than the cop with a speed-meter.

    Still the explicit intent is to enforce speed-limits, knowing that people would violate them if they could, but they can't because they would wreck their car. Still those people choose to violate and are responsible for their actions.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I gotta be honest; I don't understand what point you're trying to make. First you tell me I'm wrong that it's essential to fix the design of the street to facilitate the correct speed, then you agree with me that "physical design is more effective as enforcement," then you say that the risk of people wrecking their car effectively deters them from speeding, then you say they choose to speed anyway.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago* (1 child)

    You say that speed limits shouldnt be enforced as they would be a "symptom" of poor road design. This abolishes the speeding drivers from their own responsibility for violating the traffic rules.

    You misinterpret the design choices shown in the video as the opposite of "bad road design", therefore "good road design", which implies a generality. However these design choices are made solely and explicitly to enforce speed limits. They have disadvantages in other ways e.g. if you make spots where only one car can pass at a time, it makes traffic less efficient. These disadvantages wouldn't be needed if people would uphold the traffic rules by themselves.

    Good design or bad design, many people will speed if they can get away with it. With a proper enforcement through speed cameras, and proper penalties for speeding, e.g. losing your licences for repeated offenses or having your vehicle impounded, could equally serve for enforcement. They are just more expensive, so making design choices is prefered by some countries.

    But still people who speed chose to speed. They chose to violate the traffic rules and they chose to endanger other people and themselves. So speeding is never a "symptom" of road design. It is always a "symptom" of selfish assholes that should not be given the right to operate dangerous vehicles.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    However these design choices are made solely and explicitly to enforce speed limits.

    No, they're designed to discourage people from exceeding the design speed, which is different.

    But still people who speed chose to speed. They chose to violate the traffic rules and they chose to endanger other people and themselves. So speeding is never a “symptom” of road design. It is always a “symptom” of selfish assholes that should not be given the right to operate dangerous vehicles.

    Jeez, it's not as if the vast majority of speeders are mustache-twirling villains doing it for the evulz who are incorrigible short of being punished by the law! They just think it's safe to be driving that speed because the overly-generous street design misleads them.

    Look, here's the bottom line: the whole concept of a "speed limit" only exists in the first place because of a mismatch between the design speed and the speed people want to drive, which makes it unsafe. If you fix the geometry of the street to eliminate the mismatch such that the speed people want to drive at is safe, you don't need the limit anymore and can just fall back on "reasonable and prudent."

    Y'all are acting like we need speed limits for their own sake, just to have something to enforce.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    Sorry but it's a black and white thing in this case, r either you're under the speed limit and not breaking the law or you're over the speed limit and breaking the law.

    Also, tons of people object to speed camera tickets and win, the only difference is that there's no officer there when the event happened to tell them "Say that to the judge if you're not happy.", the end result is the same.

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    We also need to keep in mind the mechanism it is using to detect speed. If it uses radar it will need regular calibration. Handheld units for example are supposed to be spot checked before and after each shift with tuning forks and sent back to the manufacturer to be recalibrated every 6 months or so.

    Lidar and optical flow most likely have different requirements, but I am not as familiar with them.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Sorry but it’s a black and white thing in this case, r either you’re under the speed limit and not breaking the law or you’re over the speed limit and breaking the law.

    This isn't actually true. It's entirely possible to be breaking the law while driving under the speed limit: "driving too fast for conditions" is very much a thing.

    But that's beside my point, which really was just that changing the design of the street to make people not want to speed in the first place is way more effective (and frankly, way less totalitarian) than punishing them after-the-fact for doing so.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    "Driving too fast for conditions" won't be enforced by cameras, will still exist if the road is modified and is 100% subjective which is a problem speed cameras don't have so you should be happy about that.

    It might be more effective, it's still not possible to change all roads as quickly as speed cameras can be deployed.

    It's also a very stupid argument, that's like saying "If that person didn't want me to steal from them they shouldn't have left their car unlocked." The rule is there, it's your responsibility to respect it no matter what the road looks like. Both things need to be used in conjunction, roads need to be adapted to their limit but you need something to enforce the limits too.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    street that was designed wrong

    Not Just Bikes? *checks link* yep, Not Just Bikes.

    Yeah, speeding is a symptom of poor infrastructure design. It means one of a few possibilities:

    • You don't care and get speeding tickets
    • You do care and piss off everyone else on the road
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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You do care and piss off everyone else on the road

    Or worse, incite a bunch of extra passing maneuvers, making the road less safe.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    I'm sure it varies by area.

    Where I live they install speed cameras in residential areas, school zones, and bus routes. They also only trigger when you are going 12 or more over the limit, and the highest speed limit I've seen with one these was 45mph, 35mph during school times. They also have an officer review and sign the citation, it is a flat fee, and no points. If needed, the officer who reviews will testify in court.

    If someone is going 12+ over on school zones, school bus routes, and residential neighborhoods, then they deserve their fine.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    I don't find improving road safety through intelligent engineering controversial, I think blaming the street design instead of the idiot deciding to speed through it is controversial. In the end it is the driver who accelerated, not the road engineer.

    In fact I actually like how much attention has been brought over the past years to road design. I've always been scared of cars.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    I'm a big fan of NJB (shout out to !notjustbikes@feddit.nl), but I'm not going to argue against speed cameras. That's ridiculous. Yes, if I have to choose one or the other I'll take the better road design. But even with good road design, some people will choose to be dicks because they can, or they see it as a challenge or some shit. And speed cameras can be implemented right now, whereas better road design waits (even in the Netherlands!) until that street is next due for repaving.

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