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this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023
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The Bolsheviks agitated among the soldiers between Feb and Oct, winning the support of the Russian lower ranks of the army in Petrograd and Kronstadt, and elsewhere, was essential to the Bolsheviks seizing power. Radicalized Navy was crucial in Russia, but also it was the German Navy that basically began the German Revolution against the war credits voted for by the SPD. Burkina Faso, while I'm not yet as familiar with the history, was another example of the enlisted military splitting from the top ranks and seizing power to implement socialism.
I don't know what it would take to turn the American military away from imperialism and toward socialism, and I'm not in a position to argue for it. But your example of Wehrmacht soldiers is completely unmoored from what the person you were responding to was trying to get at. I've talked to people who served who have made good arguments for agitating within the military, and everyone I know who has actually been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan (and there's def some selection bias here) is some flavor of anarchist/socialist.
"But Nazis tho" is not the level of criticism that will help us to build socialism. Relax.
I'm sorry but this is not a good comparison. The Russian Imperial Army and Navy were mostly lower class conscripts fighting in a traditional style with rifles and canons. The US military is all volunteer and uses tactics that rely on air superiority, advanced weaponry and intel gathering. Most people in the US military these days never get into an actual fire fight, or even ever see "the front". If you get recruited these days you're way more likely to get a job moving boxes in some base in Italy, playing Xbox in an air conditioned dorm in your free time, than hunkering down in a ditch with a rifle. I don't see what the left gains from recruiting some guy who piloted a drone while eating Doritos or drove a hummer around Kandahar for a year and maybe got shot at twice, both of whom are getting a full ride scholarship and a cheap home loan when they get out.
I literally said I wasn't arguing for agitating in the army, just that I've heard good arguments and I could imagine a confluence of historical conditions where it could become possible. My main point is not to jump down people's throats with debate-lordy indignation using examples that are irrelevant.
Theyre more likely to be duty stationed in Germany than Italy
Navy buddy got stationed in Naples so not uncommon
well that's the navy. nobody likes the puddle pirates
Those are Conscripted armies that are fighting in an inter imperalist war , reclaiming their innocents by revolution.
US Army is a Volunter Force used in Colonial Oppression ... it is less inncocent then a Conscripted Soldier . If you join it you have discared your obligation to your fellow man and have Puplicly decleared your intention to make Murder in the Colonies your Profession.
why would that be Innocent ? It just isnt.
you are literally discribing the People whos Job it is to "Kill Socialism" .. but no they are not your enemies ? But Nazis tho . the greatest thing is , i dont even have to explain that , once we will build socialism , they gonna come themselfs to explain it to you ! its one of their primary service products.
I am not saying that agitating within the army is the path to socialism, I specifically said that I was not making that argument. I'm saying that it had been the path to socialism in specific historical contexts, and thinking about it is not akin to allying with Nazis. Stop trying to win a debate. We can have discussions.
I found a YouTube link in your comment. Here are links to the same video on alternative frontends that protect your privacy:
The class character of the US military is pretty far off from the impression people have where only poor people join it for a better life, since it became a volunteer force. I'm glad you've met class traitors, not trying to invalidate what you're saying or say "it's on sight with anyone in the military" lol, people make mistakes.
It would be cool if people could go get trained by Cubans a la Angolan rebels 😸
https://hexbear.net/comment/4395565 <- obnoxious recursive linking to Adam Tooze (radlib) writing about modern US military being almost entirely deep south JROTC recruits