you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] 38 points 2 years ago (4 children)

Forced prison labour is the foundation of a number of economies, including the US'. It's explicitly not prohibited in the Constitution.

China can't use prison labour to undercut global markets because they have a smaller prison labour pool than their key economic competitor (the US).

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 41 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    I don't believe that. Chinas prison stats are around 1.69mil (which is oddly on par with the US - per capita not taken into consideration). However, per the Global Slavery Index, there's an estimated 5.8 million people enslaved there. And we know that there were over 1 million Uyghur Muslims, and we really don't even know the extent to which that is happening either.

    I'd be willing to bet that there's a lot more slave/prison labor going over there than even we realize.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 8 child comments
  • [–] 30 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    In the US, we don't call them slaves. We call them prisoners. That's how we stay off the index.

    Never mind that we intentionally arrest specific racial groups more than others, and that the laws are such that you can be arrested for almost anything, including things like "looking suspicious while driving and then resisting arrest."

    Slavery never left America. We just decided to start including some poor white people too.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    The GSI is not a reliable index. The Walk Free initiative that publishes the GSI doesn’t use a consistent methodology for every country and will also uncritically accepts reports of human trafficking from unreliable sources.

    For example, their report on China includes unverified claims of harvesting organs from members of the Falun Gong, a right wing cult operating out of the US. The Falun Gong also operates the Epoch Times which is a far right conspiratorial newspaper that has promoted Qanon, antivax propaganda, and claims of election fraud in the 2020 US presidential election. You can not trust their testimony on faith alone and yet that’s what Walk Free did.

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago* (2 children)

    This post has so many controversial aspects:

    • There are no real numbers from china, how many people are actually imprisoned or what even means imprisoned. For example the Uyghurs are not Prisoners in Prison but "Citizens in reeducation camps"- what is a lie. Pictures show they are indeed imprisoned . China is fudging these numbers like the economy numbers at a grand scale.
    • China is able to force people to work in certain regions or cities. They have a complex system on how to channel work by prohibiting living-, healthcare- and pensions-systems to citizens based on their location and citizens need to apply for changes to these systems to be able to work in other regions.
    • China - as an authoritarian regime - can force every prisoner to work if they deem it useful. The US has different rules for penal labor, but not make prisoners work like china. The US has a much different landscape.
    • China undercut every good, in every sector (except some high tech sectors) based on their vast (forced) workforce but also in the strategic sense. They act like Uber (or is Uber acting like China?) in the sense, that their strategy in the last 4 decades was to undercut e.g. Steel-Production for their own advances, but also to cripple the industries in the US and the West in general to come out as the sole supplier for these products and services to then control the prices (like Uber). The US Steelworker Industry is practically gone by now. They did the same with raw-materials and lately with Solar, where they undercut the European (German) markets, to cripple it and control the production/income/spread.
  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago

    They have a complex system on how to channel work by prohibiting living-, healthcare- and pensions-systems to citizens based on their location and citizens need to apply for changes to these systems to be able to work in other regions.

    This is called indentured servitude, it was common in feudal societies.

    BTW, you should add a new line between points to have proper formatting

  • source
  • parent
  • [–] -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Tell it to the 13th Amendment:

    Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction

    Coincidentally, those convicted parties are predominantly Black.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 6 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Person A: it's bad that China is bad.

    Person B: OMFG but USA bad too!

    Like, do you actually think this is a real defense for China's behavior? Or are you just blustering because you understand there is no defense and that hurts your world view?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] -12 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    The OP claimed China has a competitive edge from prison labour. I disproved that statement.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Not really. Because China'a numbers are demonstrably false. It's the good old "you can't prove it's happening if we just don't count them" logic.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    You can disprove China's numbers... How, exactly?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (1 child)
  • [–] 2 points 2 years ago (1 child)
  • [+] 3 points 2 years ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    What granularity do you think satellites shoot at?

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] 1 point 2 years ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    An opinion piece with no quantitative analysis? Nice.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 2 child comments
  • [+] 2 points 2 years ago* (last edited 6 months ago) (1 child)
  • [–] -2 points 2 years ago (1 child)
  • [–] 12 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    Instead, China uses their prison population to bolster their organ transplant market.

    Edit: I wonder if the people who downvoted realise that China admitted they had been harvesting organs from prisoners but claimed it was voluntary and that they were stopping. Meanwhile, the exponential growth of their transplant industry continued beyond 2014.

  • source
  • parent
  • hideshow 4 child comments