this post was submitted on 26 Oct 2023
23 points (66.2% liked)

Unpopular Opinion

6339 readers
59 users here now

Welcome to the Unpopular Opinion community!


How voting works:

Vote the opposite of the norm.


If you agree that the opinion is unpopular give it an arrow up. If it's something that's widely accepted, give it an arrow down.



Guidelines:

Tag your post, if possible (not required)


  • If your post is a "General" unpopular opinion, start the subject with [GENERAL].
  • If it is a Lemmy-specific unpopular opinion, start it with [LEMMY].


Rules:

1. NO POLITICS


Politics is everywhere. Let's make this about [general] and [lemmy] - specific topics, and keep politics out of it.


2. Be civil.


Disagreements happen, but that doesn’t provide the right to personally attack others. No racism/sexism/bigotry. Please also refrain from gatekeeping others' opinions.


3. No bots, spam or self-promotion.


Only approved bots, which follow the guidelines for bots set by the instance, are allowed.


4. Shitposts and memes are allowed but...


Only until they prove to be a problem. They can and will be removed at moderator discretion.


5. No trolling.


This shouldn't need an explanation. If your post or comment is made just to get a rise with no real value, it will be removed. You do this too often, you will get a vacation to touch grass, away from this community for 1 or more days. Repeat offenses will result in a perma-ban.



Instance-wide rules always apply. https://legal.lemmy.world/tos/

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

I AM NOT ADVOCATING VIOLENCE NOR JUSTIFYING IT.

In the wake of the Onion's routine release of their "No Way To Prevent This" article, people like to blame the perpetrator's action on mental illness. That is, some sort of mental instability was the primary cause of a mass shooting. Logically, if that is true, then without that mental instability, the mass shooting wouldn't have happened, the person would have...done something else.

But this is bullshit.

There is a science behind why people commit violence. Why We Snap points out several "triggers":

  • Life-or Limb
  • Insult
  • Family
  • Environment
  • Mate
  • Order in society
  • Resources
  • Tribe
  • Stopped

It's completely reasonable to kill a person in self-defense. Almost no one denies this. That is the primary justification for the proliferation of guns in American society. This is not a mental illness.

At home, 72% of all murder-suicides involve an intimate partner; 94% of the victims of these murder suicides are female. There are a lot of reasons why men hurt and murder women, but fragile male egos that treat women as inferior and interpret their actions as insulting and as challenging to a man's masculinity is an entire trope. And yet, the gender essentialism of traditional masculinity isn't treated as mentally ill (or even just plain wrong).

Tucker Carlson was renowned for his supposed truth-telling about how the order of American society is being threatened by an invasion of immigrants. Trump did the same thing. A reasonable conclusion, then, is that the El Paso mass shooter was merely defending his beloved nation against this invasion of immigrants, whom he just so happens to hate because they threaten the order of society.

Similarly, the Nashville Christian academy shooter was trans. For many of us, transgenderism isn't a mental illness, and thus not a cause of excessive violence in and of itself. However, coupled with the antagonistic relationship between traditional Christianity and transgenderism, several of the triggers that don't assume mental illness make sense.

And, of course, tribe...oh boy! As American polarization increases among the electorate, the salience of tribes increases. Only like a week ago, GOP lawmakers that didn't support Jim Jordan's nomination for House Speaker were sent death threats over the phone. If you don't vote for their guy, they'll fuck you up! (But non-violently...listen to the clip). Being protective and supportive of people like you isn't considered a mental illlness.

Again, I don't believe any of this violence is justified, nor am I advocating for it. (I cannot stress that enough). My argument is that there are seemingly rational reasons to engage in violence in the moment. So, rather than scapegoating the mentally ill, maybe, just maybe, we should look to why it seemed like a rational decision for a mass shooter to kill a bunch of people. What was their motivation? What problem were they trying to solve? And why did excessive violence seem like a good way to solve the problem?

I believe this is a much better approach to any shooting or violence in general than the allowing an immediate pivot to mental illness as the causal factor.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

No I don't believe people kill because they desire to, although to be absolutely honest - some people do. The neighbor of this shooter was explaining on the news yesterady, about how people already knew to "steer clear of this guy." He'd drive around with bloody deer carcasses hanging out of truck, laughing about it. I truly believe some men hunt purely because they love to kill animals.

I also agree that working at a slaughterhouse, or for that matter, a morgue or any other place where you encounter grisly circumstances does NOT take being mentally ill - in fact, I'd say it probably takes a much tougher and stronger mentality than normal to work in such a place.

As for the car problem - I'm saying that cars are designed with safety features because car manufacturers knew people would get into accidents. They're not designed to be deadly, but people misuse them by driving while drunk or high, and speeding and not paying attention. That to me isn't necessarily mental illness, but it sure as heck is immature irresponsibility that may speak to other mental health issues going on.

Also, I'm not trying to conflate mental illness with immorality. I'm not saying people with mental health issues are all killers, either. I've had mental health problems with work stress, and I freely admit it. I got myself some great counseling, and found a better path in life.

But I still assert that it IS abnormal (mentally) to desire to see people get killed, kids, or adults, or otherwise. I truly believe a sound mind and a mature, well-adusted mind, finds such an idea repulsive and unthinkable. I know I could never live with myself if I killed another person, even if it was in self-defense. Anyway - maybe that's just me, and I hope others are as morally repulsed by killing as I am.

Just some thoughts. I do appreciate your feedback!!