this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2023
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chapotraphouse

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[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

From a third worldist perspective, many would argue that Trotskyists with the theory of "permanent/world revolution" put the cart before the horse so to speak, in that they do not accept the limitations of "building socialism in one country" and the reality of where many third world/global south/periphery countries start from, which is a rock bottom capitalist economy structured for exploitation by the imperial core/centre - see Micheal Parenti "not poor but over exploited" - and the contradictions that will occur because of this, when on a path towards socialism and dismantling this form of capitalism, contradictions such as stagism/two stage theory/new democracy.

In the countries of the (Global) South, most people are victims of the system, whereas in the (Global) North, the majority are its beneficiaries. Both know it perfectly well, although often they are either resigned to it (in the South) or welcome it (in the North). It is not by accident, then, that radical transformation of the system is not on the agenda in the North whereas the South is still the “zone of storms,” of continual revolts, some of which are potentially revolutionary. Consequently, actions by peoples from the South have been decisive in the transformation of the world.

Taking note of this fact allows us to contextualize class struggles in the North properly: they have been focused on economic demands that generally do not call the imperialist world order into question. For their part, revolts in the South, when they are radicalized, come up against the challenges of underdevelopment. Their “socialisms,” consequently, always include contradictions between initial intentions and the reality of what is possible...There is no “world revolution” on the agenda whose center of gravity would be found in the advanced centers. Lenin, Mao, Ho Chi Minh, and Castro understood that and accepted the challenge of “constructing socialism in one country.” Trotsky never understood that. The limits of what was achievable in these conditions, beginning with the heritage of the “backward” capitalism found in the peripheries, accounts for the later history of the twentieth century’s great revolutions, including their deviations and failures.

  • Samir Amin, Revolution from North to South

I personally have no problem with Trotskyists as long as they are not overly sectarian or overly critical of states actually attempting to build socialism. It's perfectly fine to have theoretical disagreements. As long as they're still on the left, it's all good.

[–] [email protected] 33 points 1 year ago (4 children)

as long as they are not overly sectarian or overly critical of states actually attempting to build socialism.

i sure would like to meet those Trots in person cause I sure haven't.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think I've ever met any kind of trot in person

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

ill admit i only know of two, but one of them gifted me Fascism what it is and how to fight it, and it was filled with so much whining about "Stalinism" i couldnt help but laugh, mostly because the Trots I know are firmly against any AES. Modern day Trots want the revolution, but also every revolution that has happened has been bad. They are like anarchists when it comes to saying "red fascism" way too fucking much.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Only trots I know were transphobes/terfs

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have only spoken at any length to one, but he was very quick to tell me that China was not socialist, and that it is state capitalist and ccp evil.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

it would appear that it's impossible for them to agree with any successful revolutions. Trotsky was the first commie edgelord who got BTFO and then kept screaming "i would have done it better!" while he does shit like tour fascist Italy.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Michael Hudson, who is the godson of Trotsky for those who don’t know. Hudson is an exception to all those stereotypes (to be fair, he’s probably not so much ideologically a Trotskyist apart from his family background, but he sure likes to throw shade at the “Stalinists”)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago
[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

This is a great response