this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
193 points (85.6% liked)

No Stupid Questions

35311 readers
1200 users here now

No such thing. Ask away!

!nostupidquestions is a community dedicated to being helpful and answering each others' questions on various topics.

The rules for posting and commenting, besides the rules defined here for lemmy.world, are as follows:

Rules (interactive)


Rule 1- All posts must be legitimate questions. All post titles must include a question.

All posts must be legitimate questions, and all post titles must include a question. Questions that are joke or trolling questions, memes, song lyrics as title, etc. are not allowed here. See Rule 6 for all exceptions.



Rule 2- Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material.

Your question subject cannot be illegal or NSFW material. You will be warned first, banned second.



Rule 3- Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here.

Do not seek mental, medical and professional help here. Breaking this rule will not get you or your post removed, but it will put you at risk, and possibly in danger.



Rule 4- No self promotion or upvote-farming of any kind.

That's it.



Rule 5- No baiting or sealioning or promoting an agenda.

Questions which, instead of being of an innocuous nature, are specifically intended (based on reports and in the opinion of our crack moderation team) to bait users into ideological wars on charged political topics will be removed and the authors warned - or banned - depending on severity.



Rule 6- Regarding META posts and joke questions.

Provided it is about the community itself, you may post non-question posts using the [META] tag on your post title.

On fridays, you are allowed to post meme and troll questions, on the condition that it's in text format only, and conforms with our other rules. These posts MUST include the [NSQ Friday] tag in their title.

If you post a serious question on friday and are looking only for legitimate answers, then please include the [Serious] tag on your post. Irrelevant replies will then be removed by moderators.



Rule 7- You can't intentionally annoy, mock, or harass other members.

If you intentionally annoy, mock, harass, or discriminate against any individual member, you will be removed.

Likewise, if you are a member, sympathiser or a resemblant of a movement that is known to largely hate, mock, discriminate against, and/or want to take lives of a group of people, and you were provably vocal about your hate, then you will be banned on sight.



Rule 8- All comments should try to stay relevant to their parent content.



Rule 9- Reposts from other platforms are not allowed.

Let everyone have their own content.



Rule 10- Majority of bots aren't allowed to participate here.



Credits

Our breathtaking icon was bestowed upon us by @Cevilia!

The greatest banner of all time: by @TheOneWithTheHair!

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
 

seems like the 'safe' public opinion is 'we stand behind israel' and the left opinion is palestinian support

i don't live there i don't have any particular interest or fascination with the region i don't understand any of this pls don't yell at me

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 160 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (6 children)

How long do you have? Here’s the very brief summary, and full disclaimer, I don’t have dog in this race.

  1. Jerusalem is an important place for both Jews and Muslims.

  2. They’ve been fighting over this space for two millenia. The Roman’s had it for a long time (Christian), the Ottomans had it for a long time (Islamic).

  3. After WW1 and the Ottomans were defeated, it passed onto the Turkish (Islamic).

  4. After WW2, with Britain now in control of it (Palestine) and with the surviving Jews now displaced worldwide with no country to live, the U.N decided to give Jews a new home and call this new place the State of Israel. They put Israel right in the middle of Palestine, which no Islamic nation could object to because they were all defeated in war.

  5. Since then, Jews call Israel their home country. Surrounding Islamic countries don’t recognise Israel and want the Jews to leave.

  6. Islamic nations including Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Syria have all gone to war with Israel (the 6-day War) to kick the Jews out. They’ve all lost because Israel is militarily backed by world powers. Israel is now a military powerhouse and have full control of the region.

  7. Israel allow Muslim Palestinians small areas to live in the area, namely Gaza and the West Bank, but they’re not particularity nice to the Muslims living there. This is the Palestinian/Israeli war that’s been going on for almost a century.

  8. This space is now two main religions crammed into a very small space. Both claim that it’s their ancestral land. Islamic nations don’t recognise Israel as a country. Most of the rest of the world does.

  9. Israel has become a defensive fortress with nukes, and is surrounded by five countries that hate it. No Islamic nation is strong enough to beat Israel. Skirmishes and shit fighting continues. Sometimes it gets serious. This week it got really serious.

  10. This fight will probably go on forever because of the religious significance of Jerusalem which neither the Israelis or Palestinians will ever give up claim to.

  11. So who’s right and who’s wrong? Probably neither. Probably both. Probably humans are just shit.

EDIT: I know there’s lots of missing parts here but honestly, the full story would be a semester of university worth of info. I tried to keep this ultra-digestible, without bias or conspiracy or finger pointing.

Thank you below for the corrections.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 11 months ago

The only thing I'd add is "not particularity nice to the Muslims living there" is putting it mildly.

Because there's always tension, Israel takes its security very seriously. Unlike most countries, who put a token effort into security most of the time, Israel really is an armed fortress. That makes it very easy for someone with an itchy trigger finger to shoot someone who didnt deserve shooting. Even with the best will in the world, it would happen from time to time.

That, of course, makes the Palestinians very angry. An angry population poses more of a threat, and is more likely to do something genuinely aggressive. The Israeli security is thus tightened further, and their soldiers get even itchier trigger fingers and around and around we go.

It doesn't take long before everyone involved has a personal grudge for one reason or another, and things can get really vicious.

[–] [email protected] 30 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)
  1. After WW1 and the Ottomans were defeated, it passed onto the Turkish (Islamic).
  1. After WW2 the Turkish were defeated and they lost it to Britain. In the same war the surviving Jews were displaced worldwide and had no country to live, so the League of Nations (U.S, Britain, Canada, France mainly) decided to give Jews a new home and call this new place the State of Israel. They put Israel right in the middle of the British controlled Palestine, which no Islamic nation could object to because they were all defeated in war.

Turkey never fought in ww2. Turkey was already after ww1 completely stripped of territory in the Levant. There also was no league of nations after ww2 anymore, but the UN was founded. No Arabic nations were defeated in ww2. Some of 4. happened after ww1 not 2. The creation of Israel was heavily objected by the neighboring Arabic nations, see 6-Day-War.

[–] [email protected] 20 points 11 months ago

Ahh, fair. I got some WW1 and WW2 details mixed up. I’ll edit so I’m not feeding false info.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago (1 children)

They’ve been fighting over this space for two millenia.

It's been on and off and off and off and off and off and off and off and off and on again.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

It's kinda like if the Italians showed up en masse in England, claiming that they have a right to the place, because the romans once held that area.

The Jews weren't the first people in Israel either, not even in biblical times.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago

Thank you for recognizing that this stuff is not going on for a century or two, not even for centuries, but for millenia. The conflicts in the mesopotamian area are probably the oldest in the world. Reducing it to what happened after or shortly before WWII is like telling the history of the world/the universe starting from when homo sapiens came into place.

Trying to figure out who this land belongs to seems futile. How many great grandfather generations do you have to go back to make this part of soil "yours"? Is 10 enough? 15? 20? Imagine your family lived in this part of the region since 1000 AD just for someone to come and say they've been here since 900 AD so you are technically a foreign invader and don't belong there. Give back your house.

I sometimes wonder if they go back further than the religions the conflict is supposedly based on. I mean, tribal conflicts have always been a thing, right?

[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Very comprehensive write up, but i think something a lot of answers miss out on is...well, who was there before the romans? The romans called the area Judaea....land of the Jews. Before the Romans the Seleucid Empire had to deal with several uprisings led by.....the Jews (the maccabean revolt). Its not enirely accurate id say to say the jews just materialised in the region in the 1950s...

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The romans called the area Judaea....land of the Jews.

Just a quick correction here. Judaea is actually named after Judah, son of Jacob.

The word 'Jew' comes from the place name Judaea, not the other way around.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago

Ooh i didnt know that TIL

[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago

There's a lot right and a lot wrong in this