I've not actually seen the DCEU Snyder films (or actually any DCEU films at all lol, which is odd because I love capeshit but here we are) so I've only know what I've heard second hand. I don't know shit all about their politics so I don't know if there's anything specific that CHUDs latch on to?
I have seen: 300 (which I enjoyed but I was pre-woke then and I'm aware it has some pretty shit politics)
Watchmen (which as a super-fan of the comic I quiet enjoyed for being what I thought at the time was super-faithful adaption, until the ending which I actually preferred to the comic's for making more sense, but I'm aware there's some really good criticisms from leftist fans of the comic about how Snyder didn't actually understand Watchmen but I've never been able to find something in a digestible format about it, just offhand comments in Shaun's twitch chat)
and Sucker Punch (which I enjoyed at the time as dumb fun and because cute girls in hot outfits, I saw it a bit before I started to get woke on feminism though. I have seen defenses of the film from a feminist angle [from MovieBob, lol] that vibe with me but I think in the end even if they were TRYING to do a weird deconstruction/satire they so clearly failed at it based on the reaction, too many feminists hated it and too many men didn't get the subtle message and loved it for what it was pretending to be. So whatever they were trying to do failed too spectacularly for me to give them credit for what they were trying to do.)
I do find it odd though, on the subject of the main question I'm asking here, that Snyder apparently tried to make a subtly feminist movie that involved tricking horny nerds into seeing it and then getting "sucker punched" by the movie's message, but super-fans of the director are all rightwinger anti-feminist nerds who hate Brie Larson?
Please someone explain rightwing superfans of Zack Snyder to me thank you.
Watchmen's politics and style are intermingled due to the timeframe that it's set in and the events that are covered.
Just because Snyder was able to emulate that, doesn't mean he had any fucking clue what it all means in context. Like you literally could not make watchmen without the politics.
He added nothing to the story ideologically speaking, just simply retold it as it was written with an altered ending that felt more "serious".
Because of this I don't think Snyder has any understanding of politics.
In fact, since it was an almost entirely page by page recreation, it doubly makes me think this.
What he is good at though, is style. Gritty, hyper masculine, and a lot going on the surface, if makes it harder to see under the hood of the films. It also allows one to project their own ideology into it, since there's a big vacant hole where a stance would be.
So you have someone with zero ideological coherence, in fact a great gaping void of it, but is great at making things look appealing and cool.
That makes sense to me for why right wingers would latch on.
[I still kinda prefer the Snyder ending but maybe there's a symbolic meaning to Moore's that I never picked up on because I'm a big ole dumbass with no critical lense of my own.]
The absurdity of it is what would bring people together. An unknown alien and interdimensional threat that would take years and years of cooperative research to even begin to understand how it was possible, all this while the threat of another attack would be looming at any moment vs oh no the American blue guy we have a decent understanding of that did war crimes did another one.
Though my view of the ending is skewed from the HBO one because they make a pretty good case for why the comic ending works.
The comic ending is absolutely ridiculous. There's an alien and then.... uh, that's it. The fact that there won't be an alien ever again, and that eventually people are going to notice is a huge dangling plot thread. Solved by having the world having to ally because a fucking deity "wants the world dead.".
And I remember getting harranged by the old sub for pointing this out because "Akshually the ending is supposed to be dumb as fuck. Its to highlight that ozymandias isn't actually all that smart"
That makes sense, thanks. I still haven't gotten around to watching the HBO one but Ive heard its incredible.
I also want to reread the comic with a more woke brain because I'm 32 and I last read it when i was a highschooler. But I gave away my copy to a friend and I prefer hard copies so I'd have to buy a new one. Probably still wouldn't pick up on the subtleties because like I said, big dumb baby who can't criticize art for himself, but I want to try.
I read it again as an adult and, it hits wayyyy different around 30.
What in particular felt different I'm curious?
I guess it's a combo of age and the shit that went down in the last fifteen years or so. It's kinda hard to specify, but there is this overarching theme of aging and letting go of the past that I definitely didn't really notice when I was younger. The Nostalgia fragrance mini-mini-mini-arc reminded me of Only 90s Kids Will Get This. It's also shown to be a manufactured feeling made for profit by Adrian. I also am just way smarter now than when I was 15 and can just read the text way deeper than before. Maybe as a kid I sort of could identity with aspects of various characters and now I just think they're all disgusting except Sally and Night Owl, and the fact that they're the relatable ones is kinda depressing.
Yeah the one thing I know is that I'm definitely going to react to Rorschach different. Though I think that has as much to do with being politically woke as it does with maturity. Now granted, I was never one of the people who read Watchmen and thought Rorschach was THE hero of the story and was super cool. I always read him calling Adrian a "possible homosexual" and stuff like that as bad and not easy to write off. But I'm pretty sure my reaction as a teen was "he's kinda cool but also pretty flawed". I don't think my reaction as an adult would even be that positive lol.
That's interesting stuff about the nostalgia/letting go of the past themes resonating with you more now though. I'll look out for that when I reread.
Oh man, Rorschach is a really obvious one, his monologues read like Chud posts, for a re-read, don't give him a Batman voice in your head, it makes it even more clear. He's fucking awful. The Comedian is a rapist mercenary. Doctor Manhattan left his wife for a sixteen year old and basically nuked Vietnam. Adrian is a techno-fascist ubermensch. I used to see them as cool but flawed, but they aren't just flawed. They're just straight up awful awful people.
I completely forgot that Laurie* was 16 when she first caught Dr Manhattan's eye X_X . Like, I realize that "16 year old is child" is a more recent development in ethics than most folks understand these days, but that's still deeply fucked up.
I also think its really fucking weird that this supposedly like transcendent being who doesn't feel emotions in the same way anymore is still susceptible to deciding that his wife is too old now and wanting a younger model? That's another thought I remember having even as a teen.
I also don't think the fact that Manhattan nuked Vietnam was really something that I understood as a teen for some reason, because I'm only just being reminded of it now. With Comedian, I always saw him as a piece of shit without question, I don't think I ever saw him as having redeeming qualities. So there is that at least. Adrian I don't think my mind would change much on because I see him as falling into the "well intentioned extremist" trope that I tend to find really interesting. Not that I think he's good or even redeemable, just that I think his motives are well explained and developed by Moore.
*btw did you mean Laurie when you said Sally? Because Sally is pretty flawed too, doesn't fall into the same irredeemable category as the others but definitely not a paragon. If you did mean Sally, I can't remember anything Laurie did that was particularly fucked up to be excluded by you?
I did mean Laurie, got the names mixed up. Laurie and Night Owl and a lot of side characters aren't bad. It's not like...everyone, just most of the main cast.
It's weird that this transcendent being nuked Vietnam as well. It's literally a case of God Exists and He is American. Dude doesn't care about the difference between a dead body and a living one cause of particle count (number same, thing same, capitalist brainworm) but can tell the difference between a middle aged woman and a teenager and chose the latter. Dr. Manhattan could even be seen as a metaphor for America in general. A normal doofus falling somewhat ass backward into unlimited power and losing all humanity in the process. I'm learning all of this as I'm typing it btw.
Adrian is Elon Musk with actually impossible abilities that he got through pure willpower. He's a hyper capitalist and owns the biggest corporation in the world. Regardless of his motives, which the results of will be uncertain anyway, he had to become Jeff Bezos x10 to do so. He's Elon Musk cause his plans probably won't work.
Comedian is for sure exactly how I remembered him except I found his backstory much less sympathetic.