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[–] 90 points 1 day ago* (31 children)

Don't connect your freezers to the internet, or at least make it read only. At this point, any company that hasn't taken appropriate measures after it's happened a few times in a month should be held liable.

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  • [–] 38 points 1 day ago (22 children)

    No, don’t even connect it. There will be bugs and you won’t be able to fix them.

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  • [–] 22 points 1 day ago (3 children)

    Don't even buy a freezer that has a remote control. Especially not for freezing life critical supplies.

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  • [–] 10 points 16 hours ago (2 children)

    Read only remote access is useful for life critical supplies. You want to know, as soon as possible if your blood has gone out of safe storage temperatures, and for how long. It would let you save the supplies by moving them to a new freezer.

    The problem is remote temperature control. That bit should be air gapped, unless you have a very good reason to need to adjust it remotely.

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  • [–] 4 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 20 minutes ago) (1 child)

    I'm not against remote monitoring. But remote controls are just fucking stupid in a freezer. Pretty much any temperature change needs someone on site anyway in order to move the freezer's contents someplace else beforehand. Keeping temperature constant can be accomplished via a simple thermostat. If you really need some sort of cycle that changes temperature over time, the controller doing that can be purely off line as well. Anything that allows remote control endangers the contents of your freezer.

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  • [–] 3 points 14 hours ago

    I mostly agree. I can think of a few niche uses for it. However, they are very uncommon. E.g. bringing a freezer of blood up from "deep storage" temperatures to "ready to use in a hurry".

    I can also think of a few more where a "boost mode" could be useful e.g. a supermarket that knows there is a heat wave. Over-chilling the freezers would let them cope better with the temperature spike later in the day.

    Critically, these should still be within safe hard limits. The fact that hackers could effectively switch them off in mass is the huge issue.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago* (15 children)

    Seems logical, but there's a valid reason why these fridges are connected, at least for reading data (not so much for controlling).

    European law dictates that things that can spoil due to heat must be stored at the right temperature. And therefore you must register the temperatures of each refrigerator at each moment to have a valid proof of compliance.

    A simple supermarkt already has 50 or so appliances. And supermarkets are usually chains with hundreds of stores. So you can imagine the need of having to monitor temperatures centrally. I can imagine that for medical use, the rules are even stricter.

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  • [–] 14 points 1 day ago (13 children)

    Put the temp sensor on a separate system from the controls

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  • [–] 4 points 18 hours ago

    100% this. I work in pharma, that's how we do it. You would use a separate system for monitoring - the plus side being is that monitoring would likely use a thermocouple which should give you better accuracy. Having an independent system also means that you can move the temperature monitoring device to wherever the "hot spot" in your freezer is based on the mapping that you should be doing.

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  • [–] 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    This. Why the hell would you need to change the setting remotely?

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago (8 children)

    How would it adjust the temp to fix it than?

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  • [–] 3 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (7 children)

    You walk over to it and make the change?

    How often do these freezers need changing of temperature? My guess would be at most a handful of times a year.

    Amd if the controls aren't remotely connected you don't have to worry about this type of issue.

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  • [–] -1 points 21 hours ago* (6 children)

    So you pay to have someone stand around staring at a temp gauge all day? Yeah…. Sure buddy.

    And a delivery of new food, temp changes. Someone leaves a door open too long, run a chill cycle. That’s why the is stuff is automated. It’s so random. The temp and fan settings are changed probably a dozen times an hour. If it’s not, spoilage will happen.

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  • [–] 4 points 20 hours ago (1 child)

    But that automation is so simple, it doesn't need to connect to an external system. You set the target temperature once and the system regulates the cooling. No person needed, neither remote or in front of the thing.

    And temperature sensors are cheap. Just have one for the regulation, and a separate one for remote monitoring.

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  • [–] 2 points 21 hours ago (3 children)

    The whole point was keeping the temperature sensor readable remotely so that you didn't have to pay someone to stand around all day.

    Absolute worst case, add a second temp sensor for the automated chill cycles. Pretty sure temperature sensors aren't that expensive.

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  • [–] 1 point 20 hours ago* (2 children)

    The whole point was keeping the temperature sensor readable remotely so that you didn't have to pay someone to stand around all day.

    Yes? That was the problem with your suggesting someone go and change it. If you do that, and don’t have it automate the cooler, you STILL need someone.

    Absolute worst case, add a second temp sensor for the automated chill cycles. Pretty sure temperature sensors aren't that expensive.

    So THAT one can be hacked anyways? Are you even thinking these solutions out at all? Like a little bit?

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  • [–] 0 points 12 hours ago (1 child)

    I feel like you're not understanding what I am trying to convey. Or I am not being clear enough?

    A temperature sensor being hacked is nothing to worry about. Worst case scenario, the hacked sensor will report the wrong temperature and some employee will come running over to the freezer. Upon manual inspection they will realise the temperature is in fact not +50°C despite the exposed sensor reporting that.

    The freezers automated freezing/heating just runs off an other separate temperature sensor that won't be hacked since it is not exposed to the internet.

    Don't this make sense to you? 😅

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  • [–] 0 points 9 hours ago*

    Do you not realize all the stuff would be garbage anyways because the legal log says it got too hot? You have it automated so you can adjust or fix the issue before you just water an entire cooler of product lmfao.

    You seem to not comprehend that you’re solutions accomplish literally nothing but more money and time for employees.

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  • [–] 3 points 22 hours ago

    air gapping is a pretty standard practice in pharma IT systems. Its probably not super feasible for a supermarket chain but their problems are not as severe. A fridge with sensors but no remote controls would be plenty sufficient for the purpose of 'prove we kept steak cool until we sold it'.

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  • [–] 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

    Also don’t make freezers that can be set for 110 degrees.

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  • [–] 4 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    IIRC they are locking them into a defrost cycle that would normally heat up the coils for a minute or two, just long enough to melt the frost.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago* (3 children)

    It happens because there is a need for a lot of things like this to have a reliable full chain of Providence for frozen food etc. it's not enough to just accept "looks frozen to me" at the time you receive something from your supplier, you need to have access and logs and legal documentation to ensure the temperature has stayed frozen the entire time, else you might be giving thousands of people food poisoning

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  • [–] 7 points 1 day ago*

    Fair point but does controlling the actual temperature need to come into play in these cases? I guess it wasn't an issue before so it was just a feature to add easily and all that.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago

    Sure, but you already likely have at least somewhat secured network around for all the other stuff you do and a computer to store those logs, no need to go trough the public internet for that data. Unless that's some cloud based service too, in which case leaving the devices open like that is even more reckless than having Joe the delivery guy plugging the cables in after hauling that fridge up to 3rd floor.

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