Virginity (thelemmy.club)
submitted 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) by to c/microblogmemes@lemmy.world
 

E: this baby dicked Honda owner is laughing at the responses.

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[–] 18 points 2 days ago (45 children)

Disagree, there is nothing special about virginity. I was 18 and horny, I just wanted to get some dick so I did.

It should at a minimum be with someone who also wants you to have fun too, but past that it’s not special at all.

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  • [–] 12 points 2 days ago (12 children)

    It's not special in some cosmic sense. You're not losing a part of your soul.

    But as the other dude said, you're experiencing something very intense & intimate for the first time. That moment is significant for the vast majority of people.

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  • [–] 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

    I didn’t say that having sex with a new person for the first time isn't special, I said there is nothing special about virginity itself. Sure I said it in a crass offhand way, but that was what I said.

    Women are taught our virginity is this incredibly important special thing that needs to be held close and only given to that one special person. We are taught our virginity is so sacred that it must be cherished. This creates the idea that after a woman has sex for the first time, she is somehow broken or unclean. It creates a hierarchy of women who have lost their virginity and women who haven’t. You would not believe how many of my friends treated me like a slut because I lost my virginity to my boyfriend at the time, a guy I dated for over 2 years after. But because we were horny and fucked after dating for 2 weeks (something I brought up before him), that made me a whore. Just me though, not him, he got high fives from friends.

    The point is, maybe we should stop teaching people that women’s virginity is sacred and teach them about how to have safe sex instead. Perhaps if we taught people about safe and healthy sex as a natural activity that many people engage in, young virgin girls wouldn’t be something that adult men thirst so hard for.

    Notice it’s only women’s virginity that is held to this standard, not men’s virginity. Whether you like it or not, putting women’s virginity on a pedestal the way people do, it’s perpetuating purity culture and patriarchy. It’s another to see women as lesser than men.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago (10 children)

    I feel like that moment is pretty insignificant to most young girls.

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  • [–] 5 points 1 day ago (8 children)

    And when women, like me, admit it was nothing special, we are shamed. The example is all the men trying to convince me that I’m wrong about virginity or that I’m some special case because I wasn’t traumatized.

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  • [–] -3 points 1 day ago (7 children)

    You are conflating two different things. The post is about virginity being "significant" but your position seems to be more about your first sex being "especially good" which is not what any person ever claims.

    Also no one is shaming you in this thread. I guess maybe you had bad experiences elsewhere? There is nothing shameful with not caring about your virginity but that isn't a common position.

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (6 children)

    The very first comment I replied to opened with a man stating “What a stupid take” because a woman said she is going to teach her daughter that virginity is not some special thing that a boy can take away from her. The first comment mentions that it “needs to be with someone special”, that is putting virginity on a pedestal. It should be with someone who isn’t an asshole and wants you to have fun too sure, but they don’t need to be special. Young folks should be educated on how to have safe sex and make it fun, if they choose to have sex at all.

    I am being told in comments that I am some special case or an outlier, using anecdotal data btw, because I am a woman who was not traumatized my first time having sex and I am saying sex is just sex. Even first time having sex is still just sex. And it’s always women’s virginity that gets treated this way, never men’s virginity. Men get a high five when they fuck for the first time, women get treated like we are sluts. Like there is something special about virgin women.

    Treating virginity as something to be treasured that someone can take from you is exactly why women feel shamed for enjoying sex. It’s perpetuating purity culture and the idea that women are wrong because we also enjoy fucking.

    Maybe my position should be more common.

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  • [–] -2 points 1 day ago (5 children)

    Blegh. So much loaded language. A MAN said one thing in reference to something a WOMAN said. How dare he.

    IMO sex should always be with some one special to you, it's not respecting your own body to just go fuck whoever. That's my perspective on it, I'm not calling those that disagree with it a whore but it's how I feel people should treat their own body. Why take on the various risks of sex with some random person you don't care about? At that point why not just Jack or Jill yourself. And yes, that applies to men too - which I assume will blow your mind. Similar to how I think people should eat healthy foods.. those that don't aren't morally wrong they just aren't setting themselves up for success and IMO making a mistake.

    I agree most western cultures put too much emphasis on female virginity, catholicism stands out, but IMO you've gone way too far in the opposite direction into "sex literally has no cost" which is factually wrong.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago (1 child)

    Dude you don't decide if people are respecting their bodies the right way. This IS some puritanical shit.

    If you are so fragile that the wrong vag will destroy you than please do your dew dilligence and don't fuck anyone you haven't vetted thouroughly. But don't speak like you have any authority over the rest of us.

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  • [–] 0 points 1 day ago*

    I don't "decide" if they are, like in an objective sense. I'm perfectly capable of creating opinions on the subject. Which is exactly what you're doing; you think it's fine. That's an opinion. We have both formed opinions on the subject.

    the wrong vag will destroy you

    I mean it could give me an incurable STD. Or lead to a kid in the world that I didn't want. Each would destroy a part of me.

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  • [–] 1 point 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

    you've gone way too far in the opposite direction into "sex literally has no cost" which is factually wrong

    🤣 I literally never said that and mentioned teaching youth safe sex in most of my comments, but you do you and stay prude dude ✌️

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  • [–] -1 points 1 day ago (1 child)

    TIL having literally any standards around sex makes you a prude 🤣

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  • [–] 3 points 1 day ago* (last edited 20 hours ago)

    Your mistake was thinking I don’t have standards around sex, but sure, after your comments, I totally believe that you don’t call people who disagree with you about sex whores. I totally believe you 🙃

    Enjoy being a prude…err sorry, having “standards”, I’m going to go have safe sex right now and then go to bed, you should try having some fun sometime 🤘

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  • [–] 2 points 1 day ago

    I mean I'm a guy but that doesn't match what literally any girl in my life has ever said.

    They pretty much all share a similar story about them being extremely nervous and it being uncomfortable awkward sex. No one described it as "magical" and also no one described it as "just another Wednesday".

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  • [–] 1 point 2 days ago (31 children)

    Yeah that makes you somewhat of an outlier. Most are below 18 and want it to be with someone they care about

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  • [–] 17 points 2 days ago* (20 children)

    But i think that's exactly the point being made, there shouldn't be that much pressure on it because it is very often disappointing. Building it up in your head as a moment that will define you often has no benefit to your life.

    Bible shaggers will disagree for obvious reasons, but nobody is going to them for measured romantic and sexual advice.

    Have sex when you feel ready. Make it special if you want to. No need to make it an implicit societal pressure.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 days ago (19 children)

    It's disappointing because we don't talk more about what it should be like. We don't expect men to do better about it. If someone had taught me how important it was and what things were at stake for women's first time, I'd have done it a lot differently.

    Many women, if not nearly all, carry trauma from their first time as well.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 days ago* (2 children)

    It should be talked about, in that we agree. Sex ed should include what to do, what to expect, and how to have fun as well as protecting oneself.

    I am also a woman and I have no trauma from my first time. It was with my bf at the time, but it still wasn’t anything special.

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  • [+] -9 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Unfortunately the fact that it wasn't traumatizing is pretty special, you just never needed to find that out fortunately

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  • [–] 9 points 2 days ago

    I would like a source on most if not all women experience trauma from losing their virginity. Because my experience really isn’t that special.

    It was fumbling, silly, nervous, sure. But not traumatic.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago* (15 children)

    I think thats exactly why this sentiment is being fielded.

    It allows a separation from what can easily be a less than pleasant experience that society often puts a lot of pressure on.

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  • [–] -2 points 2 days ago (14 children)

    That actually makes it worse. Trauma is healed by being acknowledged, not trivialized.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago* (13 children)

    Consider the consequences of associating what you consider a defining moment of your sexual identity with trauma, forever.

    Consider then, a mindset where that moment does not define your sexual identity.

    In which scenario would you expect to feel better.

    What you're saying is how to deal with an event after it happens, the topic here is how to shape your expectations before the event, to avoid a worse fallout. Regardless of how negative the experience is.

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  • [+] -8 points 2 days ago (12 children)

    Please don't go around telling people trauma is a mindset again.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago* (11 children)

    Re-read my last. You're making a slightly different distinction to uphold this point, and it doesnt really make sense.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 days ago (10 children)

    Your thinly veiled victim blaming talking points are not as subtle as you think cowboy.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago* (9 children)

    That’s a pretty extraordinary reading of what I said. “A traumatic experience can be real and serious without permanently defining your identity” is almost the opposite of victim blaming.

    I haven’t blamed anyone for being traumatised, or suggested they caused their own distress. I’m saying that we don’t need to reinforce the idea that a bad first sexual experience means something fundamental has been permanently lost or changed about them.

    You're determined to collapse “this experience can be traumatic” into “therefore virginity should carry this enormous cultural significance”, but the second simply doesn’t follow from the first, and there's no good reason to force it to.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 days ago* (8 children)

    No it's not.

    You don't get define whether trauma becomes part of your identity, it is traumatic because it becomes part of your identity whether you want it to or not.

    This is really offensive.

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  • [–] 4 points 2 days ago (6 children)

    Again, you're looking it after the fact, this discussion is about prevention.

    Can you not see the distinction?

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  • [+] -7 points 2 days ago* (5 children)

    No, it's because you don't understand trauma at all apparently.

    It's not the cultural conversation around your first time that causes it to be traumatic.

    It is that your first time experiencing anything, is when you are most susceptible to create strong associations around it. Much more so in any intense experience.

    That's how many phobias are created.

    I'm trying to tell you that this idea that trauma is intellectually malleable is extremely offensive, because that is not how it works.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago

    Anyway. If that still isnt clicking then I leave you with this only, your trauma is your own and cant be redefined by outside sources.

    But none of that means we cant try to help, support and prepare people before they (potentially) experience it.

    The goal is always to make the world a little bit nicer for those who follow us.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 days ago*

    So you do not see the distinction. You're repeatedly arguing past the point.

    Nobody is saying trauma is something you can simply reason yourself out of after the event. Ive repeatedly pointed that out even. I'm saying the meaning we attach to an event beforehand affects how we interpret and experience it.

    Yes, first experiences can produce strong associations. That doesn't establish that we should culturally frame someone's first sexual experience as a uniquely defining threshold where something is permanently "lost". If anything, that makes the framing more relevant, not less.

    A traumatic first sexual experience may be traumatic because of what actually happened: coercion, pain, fear, humiliation, betrayal, whatever the circumstances were. But the additional belief that "this was my one special first time and now it's been irreversibly taken from me" is a separate layer of meaning, and that layer absolutely can be socially taught.

    You're treating "trauma can form involuntarily" as though it disproves "cultural expectations can shape how experiences are understood" but those propositions don't conflict at all.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    Once again, that's just a slippery slope to victim blaming.

    "Couldn't you just have... thought about it differently?"

    Like I said, you're not being subtle.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago (9 children)

    Again, disagree. The average is not much younger than I was, 17 is closer to average (at least in the US). And I didn’t say it shouldn’t be with someone you care about, I said, there is nothing special about virginity.

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  • [+] -9 points 2 days ago* (8 children)

    First times of everything is considered special throughout all cultures, it goes without say that the more intense and intimate the more special.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (7 children)

    I'm not going to argue with another woman just because I disagree, just know that I’m not that much of an outlier and virginity doesn’t have to be some special thing. It’s just penis in vagina or other variations of genitals that one’s satisfy sexual orientation. Not all women carry trauma from the first time having sex, I carry no trauma other than he couldn’t finish because he was nervous.

    If we stop treating it like it’s something special and instead as a natural part of life, maybe people can talk about it more openly instead of treating it like it’s a taboo subject.

    Edit: I mistakenly assumed this guy was a woman because I misread one of his comments. The rest of my statement still stands.

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  • [+] -10 points 2 days ago (6 children)

    I'm happy to hear that for you.

    I don't know a single woman who's not been traumatized by their first time.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (5 children)

    And I know plenty who haven’t been traumatized. Anecdotes aren’t evidence.

    Edit: I don’t think you’ve talked to very many women if you’ve never met a single woman who wasn’t traumatized after having sex for the first time.

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  • [+] -7 points 2 days ago (4 children)

    You already know the research on this, right?

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  • [–] 8 points 2 days ago (3 children)

    No, but I did not make the claim that most if not all women carry trauma from their first time. You did.

    Like I said, I hate arguing with other women on Lemmy. We need to stick together because the misogyny is so strong here. But you were the one who generalized without evidence.

    The sentiment of the post is to teach women that losing your virginity is nothing special, that doesn’t mean it should be talked about and young folks educated on what should happen. Just that it’s not special.

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  • [+] -6 points 2 days ago (2 children)

    I'm not really sure where you get the idea from that I'm a woman, but what you just said seems really sexist.

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  • [–] 6 points 2 days ago (1 child)

    Honestly, I misread this comment of yours

    If someone had taught me how important it was and what things were at stake for women's first time, I'd have done it a lot differently.

    Apologies for assuming you were a woman. I didn’t catch the “I’d done it a lot differently part”.

    But there is a lot of misogyny on Lemmy, ask any woman here about our experiences. That’s not sexism, that’s being realistic.

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