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You know, the types who think leftism is unrealistic and pure utopian idealist fantasy
I don't understand these types. The type that seem to sneer at the idea of making the world a good place. If it were up to them we wouldn't build shelter from the rain or invent cures for diseases. When the world is shitty, you make it less shitty, that's the whole point of life or you might as well be miserable and live like a cow who has made peace with the slaughterhouse instead of trying to escape it.
I'm tired of people who pathologise good things and have a weird boner for hardship
"The world sucks. Grow up and leave rebelling against reality behind!"
I'm tired boss
Marxism is not Utopian. Marx's whole point of writing was that he wanted to prove that socialism is not Utopian. The socialists and communists before Marx were Utopian.
It is the conservatives and liberals who are the utopians and idealists. As you pointed out, utopianism is when you have vague immaterial goals. A liberal will look you directly in the eyes and say that their goals are "freedom" and "democracy". Those are not real things. Those things are immaterial and cannot be measured. These words don't even have concrete meaning.
Workers owning the means of production has a material definition. It is not utopian. It is a material goal that can be worked towards and achieved.
The reason that reactionaries say that Socialism is utopian is because they don't want it to happen. Liberals know that socialism is good and achievable; they want preserve the exploitation of capitalism.
Right I was probably using utopian losely, in the "A utopia to me is society that doesn't suck ass" way rather than the textbook way
My comment was my answer to the question in the title. I was not correcting you. The comment is what I would say to people who think "people who think that making things better is naive and delusional". I think people who believe in concepts such as "freedom" and "democracy" are naive and delusional.
Ooooh I get it now!
ty ty