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How to move a sofa
(thelemmy.club)
Know a guy.
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this post was submitted on 04 Aug 2026
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Can we do that without the latent ableism that comes along with it, like the idea that if you can't help people move couches then you don't deserve anyone else's help either?
This especially effects people with invisible disabilities, who are already viewed as lazy, but who also might be the most helpless when it comes to moving their own furniture.
Kevin and Tony would definitely move a sofa for a person with disabilities. No doubt in my mind. They'd still expect pizza and beer tho, that's non-negotiable.
Okay well what about when they ask that person later if they'll help move Tony's fridge? Like this un-negotiated yet obligatory repayment. If you say "sorry, I can't" then they'll immediately lose respect for you, and probably tell everyone they know not to help you in the future. Even if you explain that you have a condition that prevents you, if that condition isn't visible to them they'll think you're just selfish and making excuses.
Also, are you willing to guarantee that Kevin and Tony aren't racist or homophobic? Are you willing to guarantee they would help move a sofa for someone who's gay or black? This is about more than just disabilities.
This is about "good ole boy" culture and relying on the benevolence and altruism of people who likely as not only care about helping people they view as a part of their in-group. And if you think that's not a real problem in america, then you must not live here because it's literally all over the place here.
Maybe they'd judge you, maybe they wouldn't. No way of knowing. Sorry that you feel so mistreated by hypothetical strangers. I wasn't attempting to drum up any sort of trauma for you. I'm sending some lovingkindness out into the world for all living beings right now, and I hope you can get a little hit of it too. Be well.
Cool thing about being disabled is you become the one who knows the people with a truck and a couple 20-year old children. Or the person who cuts hair for free. Or the person whose cousin does pro bono legal work for certain requests.
In short, you become the key connector in that network: the Guy Who Knows A Guy.
It sounds like you're putting a lot of weight in your own experience and assuming every disabled person will have the same experience.
Maybe you or someone you know is disabled and is that connector who knows a guy. But projecting that and assuming every other disabled person will have that same advantage is a wild thing to do, and I'm surprised that more people don't see through that.
My wife has a physical disability, she is an "asker", as in knows she will need help from others and so will ask random people, and also connects a lot of people together. Maybe not everyone becomes that, but it sort of forces you to.
It's less an advantage and more a necessity. You either become the person who knows people who can do things or certain things don't get done.
Yes, you're right about that. And that's precisely why people who can't form those connections are at such a disadvantage.
I think it's kind of ablist to assume a disabled person has nothing of value to offer, like if they can't move a couch then they are excluded. "Moving a couch" could be anything, it could be filing taxes or cooking a meal. Disabled people are good at stuff too. I think it's really weird for you to make this assumption.
Honestly it's both. Plenty of people with disabilities have plenty to offer. A lot actually don't though, and they still deserve that helping hand.
A family aquatintance has some mental and physical disabilities. They're just not going to be able to help in any way that isn't superficial. And that's okay. Their worth isn't defined by their utility.
Attaching how worthwhile it is to help someone to their ability to provide a service inherently says the person who can't isn't worthy of help.
We should be good to people because it's the right thing to do, not out of the expectation of a future repayment. More pragmatically, we should help based on the assumption that the other person would, and that if everyone acted like that the world would be better.
I think the other person read a bit much into it, but their base point isn't wrong.
Thank you! You phrased it better than I could.
I find it wild that most people here can't see through their own assumptions. Like, everyone else needs to examine their own biases. Not them though, they could never be biased. It shows such a lack of self-awareness on their part.
My dad had a prosthetic leg, and he bristled at some of the polite or accepting ways that people would talk about disability in a way that stuck with me because he explained it. Basically a dislike of "handicapable" or the notion that you "make up for it" in other ways. To paraphrase: "getting my foot cut off in a car accident didn't come with some perk that balanced things out".
I think a lot of the pushback you got came not from a place of rejecting that they could have a bias, but from the topic being broached as a confrontation of bias instead of an explanation of ignorance.
People, like the poster above, who are being conscientious according to their understanding will get indignant or frustrated when that's met with an unmatched response.
Assuming positive intent colors implicit "positive abelism", or other "positive -isms" that I'm personally less knowledgeable about, as unfamiliarity or ignorance rather than callousness or rudeness.
In those cases, the person is very unlikely to disagree or pushback if informed about their blind spot. The key part in their head was "disabled people are just as important", sitting right next to "good people chip in and contribute". So they respond to "disabled people can't always contribute" with "disabled people are important!" phrased as "disabled people can contribute!”.
Addressing it as a bias against disabled people doesn't fit because that part is correct. Need to address it at where the problem is: a misconception about the relationship between human worth, labor and utility.
I agree. Even if the task at hand really is moving a couch, coordinatin, organising, etc. are crucial contributions that dont require physical strength or ableness to do.
What I think is ableist is that you would try to pretend that disabled people don't get excluded due to society devaluing the things they can offer.
It's also ableist for you to suggest that a disabled person should be expected to file someone else's taxes if they need help moving furniture.
You just gave a master class in missing the point.
The same way it isn't about the couch, it isn't about the taxes
To each according to their means, to each according to their needs was
Or in brocialism terms "Autism be damned my boy can work a grill"
Every metaphor breaks down if you read it at face value
Okay, that's fine and all, but "brocialism" will never be enough because it depends so strongly on a person's personal connection. It's not "to each accord to their needs" it's "to each according to their connections."
If you don't see how that disproportionally benefits and privileges in-groups then I don't know how much clearer I can break it down for you. A socialist society needs mechanisms in place to take care of those who would be forgotten by "brocialism" alone.
Maybe the system works for autistic people who can grill, but what about autistic people who can spend two hours explaining the history of North Rhine-Westphalia or Star Trek lore or any other special interest? You think someone with a truck will view that as an equivalent exchange?
Mind you, I'm not saying their talents are worthless. I'm telling you my experience as a neurodivergent person that most people view these things as lacking value and will marginalize anyone whose contributions consist exclusively of talents that most people consider worthless.
Assuming every autistic person can grill or contribute something that neurotypical people value as having worth is wrong because it marginalizes those who fall outside of that limited group, and because it reinforces the system and the idea that people need to be able to contribute something deemed valuable before they deserve to receive help.
And if you can't see how that disadvantages the people whose disabilities are the most severe, then I don't know what will get through to you.
Show me one part of humanity's development that did not involve social connection. You, as a human being are part of an unbroken chain of social connections spanning back so far that there isn't even a word for how many generations it is.
You're still focusing too much on the minutiae of the reference not the meaning behind it, its not about the grilling the same way it's not about the truck, the same way small talk isn't about the weather.
To use your own words
ITS ABOUT MAKING A CONNECTION WITH ANOTHER HUMAN BEING AND DISCOVERING THAT NOT EVERYONE IS A CUNT.
I have fully ND mates, who have special interests that they have built communities around. One of whom was genuinely incapable of spending time out in public without being in full body attack mode after less than an hour is now entirely able to spend an entire day out at a festival AND maintain enough social battery to continue spending time with friends well into the evening. Something they have fully admitted to me would not be possible five years ago.
Some people enjoy conversation. Some people are bad at using maps. Some people need to be able to speak out their thoughts aloud to even begin to analyse them and require a rubberduck that can ask questions.
"Something deemed valuable" can have many meanings to many people, but you'll never find out what they deem valuable by mentally labelling them as a degenerate that should not be interacted with the second they say something you disagree with.
Are you suggesting that makes it okay to forget about outsiders? Because if that's what you believe, then I challenge you to explain what makes xenophobia wrong without contradicting that sentiment that you're relying on so heavily.
You're saying I'm focusing too much on the minutiae, but you're the one that keeps bringing up minutiae of examples and anecdotes as if that changes anything. Ray Charles was a blind Black man, but he was also a successful musician. I don't think anyone in their right mind would use that to argue that blind black men shouldn't require additional assistance and accomodations that most don't.
You know neurodivergent people with this-or-that talent? That's great for them. BUT NOT EVERYBODY HAS THAT. And you can list as many examples as you want about such-and-such thing a person can do to help out in exchange for someone else's help, but the more examples you list, the more you marginalize people who either can't do those things, or can't find someone who's willing to help them out in the way that they need in exchange for one of those things that they happen to also be able to do.
Why would your first assumption be that I'm excluding everybody that doesn't fit into the niche?
For clarity, if you want me to pass your purity test by telling you that Xenophobia makes about as much sense as stapling your genitals to a 2x4 and swinging said 2x4 at a hornet's nest, since we're ALL GOD DAMN HUMAN BEINGS THAT DESERVE RESPECT AND HELP WHEN NEEDED EVEN IF THEY ARE SHITTY.
Who's arguing that? We're talking about sharing what abilities we do have for the greater good, in this one tiny example posted- where one person has a truck, another has a need for a truck. They, as human beings, understand that helping people feels good, so they help each other in exchange for a 'peppercorn' payment of either a shared drink/a pizza/the acknowledgment of being the one that provides help the next time. (Based on the last line about the guys with the truck noticing he was strong for his size, they knew he was capable and wouldn't have asked something of him beyond his ability, because that's rude.)
So you're assuming that I'm saying people that can't pay through any means don't deserve help? You REALLY think that about a stranger you know nothing about.
Have you heard of the concept of goodwill? Of helping someone out for the entirely selfish reason of 'helping people feels good and it makes me feel good'?
Do you know that there are volunteers currently digging people (people that couldn't ever repay them, some of whom are children, many of whom will become disabled as a result.) out of the rubble that was once their home at great personal risk from either falling debris or from further attacks that led to the homes being destroyed?
But please tell me how the examples that I'm providing are exclusive and how they're not non-exhaustive examples of ways that human beings help one another.
My partner has disabilities and so they do not help lift the sofa. But they are a lot better at driving a manual truck than I am, so with a few pillows and adaptations in the driver's cab that is what they do when someone needs a sofa moved. Some disabilities prevent you from driving the truck too, but it's important as a group of sofa movers to make sure that everyone has something they can fulfill, even if that means planning the move. That can be incredibly helpful.
Anecdotes and exceptions don't justify the erasure of marginalia.
Like, why don't all blind people just become famous musicians so that they can be rich? Ray Charles did it.
No one in their right mind would think that means blind people don't require assistance/accomodations.
Your partner has disabilities but can drive a stick shift? Great. I guess the rest of us disabled people just need to bootstrap a little harder?
I think we all understand you are angry and respect that (I hope).
But saying it's nice and good when people are helpful doesn't imply that peiple who can't help are not nice and good. There's some kind of logical fallacy in that interpretation of it.
It's not just about whether a person can help about and whether that makes them nice and good.
It's more about, there are people who get left out of society and they would struggle to find the help we need if we leave it entirely up to the good will of people helping their neighbors.
There needs to be more structured support, like taxpayer-funded programs designed to help everyone to receive the support they need, including (and especially) the people who are the most disadvantaged.
Helping your neighbor is good and shouldn't go away. But we shouldn't rely on that as a society to help the people who need it most. And we certainly shouldn't glorify a society that does depend on that, instead of funding structured social support programs that make a point not to leave anyone out who needs help.
I don't think we understand your point or how it relates to this post
Exactly. You don't, and you're unwilling to hear perspectives that conflict with your own, so you never will. That's only reinforcing the erasure of already-invisible marginalia. The whole point of what I'm saying.
It seems like you're saying that by not mentioning people with disabilities in every story they are inherently being ableist. Or is your point that the person in the screenshot should not have helped move the sofa?
My point is that we shouldn't be glorifying a society that relies on the goodwill of neighbors helping neighbors instead of funding structured social support programs that help everyone, including marginalized and disadvantaged people, to receive the help that they need.
Why can't we have both? I have a neighbor who has MS, and his neighbors help him out a bunch. He also gets government assistance and accessible public transport at his front door. Wouldn't you rather live in a place where you can depend on your neighbors for help when you need it than not knowing or caring about your neighbors? I genuinely disagree that glorifying helping other people is at all ableist
You better come with some jokes then. When I'm moving some bulky furniture upstairs and really not having a good time, sometimes a well-timed joke is exactly what we need to drop it and injure ourselves.
Was this supposed to be an attempt at a joke?
If you want to be included by people, try to be less of a dick.
This isn't me talking about the wider disabled community, of which I am part of, when I say this btw, this is me talking to you.
Okay, while you're jerking off the dicks driving big-ass little-dick trucks, I guess I'll try being nicer to those assholes while they honk their horns at pedestrians, double-park or park on crosswalks, and all that other shit that they do and everyone knows they do because they're doing it in big-ass trucks and it's not subtle.
Especially the ones rolling coal and flying trump flags. Should I try to be less of a dick to them to? I don't want to be included in whatever they've got going on. I certainly would never ask one to help move furniture. Their trucks are only for show anyway...
Are you in a lot of pain or in withdrawel or something? I'm struggling to understand where all this self victimising vitriol is coming from otherwise.
Yes, being disabled sucks, yes most people also suck, and everything is also fucking awful everywhere most of the time, and that sucks too.
But this is a comment section under a lighthearted post about moving furniture, so there's obviously something else going on that has you so upset.
Also, I don't know what makes you say standing up for pedestrians, disabled people, and other invisible or marginalized groups makes me "self-victimizing."
Do I find myself in some of those groups? Sure. But telling people they can't stand up for a marginalized group if they include themself in that group is a very insidious way to put down any resistance to fascism.
Yes, of course. You're so special and woke and this is such wonderful resistance you're doing! Everybody needs to listen to your miserable bitching about how awful you know everyone really is, and if they don't then it's fascism.
Lmao, seriously are you like bpd or something? This is such attention seeking woe is me bullshit you're pulling here, it's really gross to watch.
This dude literally ruined this thread for me. Woke up at 2am post surgery pain, I’m vibing and the post makes me smile. I dig into the comments and the moment this fuck shows up, it’s just the same Reddit dog shit I left with Spez. You can’t even come to a shit post without someone imagining a scenario in where they are a victim or some marginalized group is being oppressed and they start fucking screeching at every single person in the thread. And I read every…bit of it. And now this dude is miserable and so the fuck am I. But hey, truthfully, thanks for calling them out on this bullshit in such a spot on manner.
Oh fuck off. The next time you hear people talk about racism or sexism you should respond the same way you're doing now and see what that gets you.
Maybe ableism isn't as "hot" of a topic or whatever, it's not as sexy to discuss it as other forms of oppression, but if anything that just goes to show the disabled are even more marginalized, since apparently no one has their back and it's such "attention seeking woe is me bullshit" to critique ableism, according to you.
And don't pretend you're not ableist, you literally just stigmatized mental illness, specifically borderline personality disorder, as if people struggling with that don't already struggle enough with social rejection and low self-esteem. Genuinely, fuck you.
Of course I'm in pain. Putting aside a lifetime of social rejection, ostracization, ridicule, and derision for being different (and therefore incomprehensible to the normies who fear and hate anything they don't understand), I've spent the last few years watching my country devolve into fascism.
And these "Kevins" in the world who drive these big trucks, and are willing to help out their neighbors, are not always the "good people" that this post portrays them as. Their neighbors might call them "good ole boys," but there's a dark side to it. Those Kevins often voted for trump, support the fascist GOP and the capitalist order, often hate anyone they view as too different.
They might accept the OOP even though he's Asian, but if he was Black or Hispanic it might be a completely different story. If he was gay or trans it might be a completely different story. Kevin isn't some benevolent altruist who will help anybody and everybody. I know these types of people. They might seem nice on the surface, if you're the type of person they don't exclude. But in order to keep their approval, if you have it in the first place, you'd better not say anything that might tip them off that you're a liberal. You'd have to laugh off the casual racism, sexism, homophobia that they weave into nearly every conversation.
I see through this because it's the type of people I grew up around. I'm telling you, they're not nice people, even if they seem like it to their friends and neighbors. Anybody can treat their own friends and in-groups with kindness. Even fascists and oligarchs help their own when given an opportunity. That doesn't make them good people.
So you're strawmanning.
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