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Sorry to bother you with this again. I have posted about this 2 times in the last 6 months already, because it is a fascinating topic and i want to talk about it. The issue is, whether there is renewable energy in the universe (truly renewable). Solar energy is called "renewable" but ultimately the sun will burn out. What then?

I have last time gotten the answers that "it's a stupid question because we have more urgent problems, such as corrupt politics etc.". Frankly, i disagree. This question is of existential importance, because it gives us an outlook into the far future. These perspectives are more valuable than playing 15 minutes of a computer game, which you could do instead of reading this article.

I uploaded a neat PDF here: https://files.catbox.moe/p8tg6i.pdf

Additionally i will copy-paste the article text here.


Spider Web Cosmology

From: https://feddit.org/u/gandalf_der_12te
Date: 2026-07-26
Subject: Renewable energy in a cosmological context

Abstract

In this paper i present a simple and clear approach to extract useful energy out of the cosmic expansion using mithril material wires, i.e. wires with very high Young's modulus and ultimate tensile strength. This energy is renewable, such that it represents a continuous and probably eternal power source.

Introduction and Motivation

The industrial revolution has allowed for a significant growth of humanity. While global population numbers were around 300 million around 1000 CE, it scaled to almost 8 billion by 2000 CE. That is an almost 30-fold increase. This was made possible largely by two inventions: the combustion-engine driven tractor and the natural-gas-based ammonia synthesis. Both consume massive amounts of energy, which mostly came from fossil fuels, which are not renewable. This naturally raises the question of whether humanity will ever run out of energy, which would induce a reversal of this massive growth, i.e. a significant population shrinkage. Related to this is the problem of climate change, i.e. whether there exists a long-lasting energy source that does not poison our own living conditions that we rely on.

Ever since solar energy started around 2020 to become economically competitive, many people have felt deep relief from the anxiety around climate change and the threat that humanity would eventually run out of fuel. However, the sun is predicted to burn out in approximately 10 billion years, and then humanity will have to find a new source of energy. While other stars do exist, those too will eventually run out of energy, with the slowest- burning stars (red dwarf stars) predicted to last for approximately 1000 billion years. Slower-burning stars do not practically exist as they would not be massive enough to ignite nuclear fusion in the first place.

What other sources of energy are there in cosmology? Especially, do sources exist that do not run out after a while, i.e. that are truly renewable?

Scope and Context

This paper uses the insights from general relativity, especially cosmic expansion, and simple mechanics to present a mechanism for renewable power in cosmology. While quantum aspects, such as vacuum energy, are highly interesting and might slightly change the reality, they’re left out of this analysis and regarded as an extra feature of nature that will have to be stacked on top of this one.

Mechanism

The term „spider web cosmology“ is justified if one visualizes the core concepts of this proposal:

An array of wires made from a very thin (lightweight) material called „Mithril“ are laid out throughout the universe, which have extremely high elasticity (Young's modulus), which means they exert force when stretched without significantly changing length.

Living organisms reside at the intersection points. As the intersection points are pulled away from each other over time, the wires between them will be stretched. The force that each wire exerts can then be calculated from Hooke’s law: F=σ⋅A=E⋅ε⋅A , with F being force, σ being stress, E being Young's modulus, ε being axial strain, A being cross-section area.

The mithril wires are chains of small link elements. As the living organisms at the intersection point let the wires contract from time to time, while generating power from that contraction, new link elements are produced and attached to the wire.

The mithril wires have to be produced from new matter that gets produced from a matter-anti-matter pair, that gets produced from the energy harvested from the chain relaxation. In other words, the chain has to release more energy when it relaxes than the rest mass of the mithril chain links.

This is why this mithril material has to be extremely lightweight while still having high Young’s modulus and high ultimate tensile strength. Practically speaking, I’m not entirely sure whether such a material could exist. Using simplifications and a linear model of elasticity, common steel does not have good enough properties for this application.

I will proof this in the following calculation. For this, we have to look at the rest mass of a steel chain link and the energy that can be released when the chain is relaxed by the length of one link element. Let x be the length of one link element.

The work W1 released by the chain is W 1=F⋅x=E⋅ε⋅A⋅x , while the rest mass (rest energy W2) of one chain link is W 2= ρ⋅A⋅x with density ρ, therefore for W1 to be larger than W2 one gets the relation E⋅ε > ρ. Comparing this to the actual values for steel:

  • E is around 200 GPa (2·10¹¹ J/m³)
  • ρ is around 8 000 kg/m³, equivalent to a rest energy of around 8·10²⁰ J/m³

Therefore, ε would have to be larger than 4·10⁹, i.e. the steel wire would have to stretch to 4 billion times its usual length. However, commercially available steel used in construction typically breaks apart for ε > 3·10⁻³ (Source: Wikipedia). These steel wires would have to have a factor 10¹² higher ultimate tensile strength!!

The judgement is still out on whether a good enough mithril material could hypothetically exist.

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[-] OwOarchist@pawb.social 8 points 4 hours ago

Okay, some issues:

A) The tension along these wires will be transmitted at the speed of sound in that material. The good news is that the speed of sound in this "mithril" material under tension would be extremely fast. The bad news is that it will still be far less than the speed of light, and so it would be pretty slow on a cosmic scale.

B) I'm not sure that Hooke's law would apply here. The cables aren't really stretching like a spring. The universe is stretching, with the cable in it. There are still a lot of unknowns around how cosmic expansion actually works, but I think one real option here is that the cables don't actually 'stretch' -- the tension force pulling on them never increases -- they just become longer as the space they're in becomes longer. A 1m section of cable will still be 1m long over time, it's just that the meter got bigger.

C) Somewhere in this spiderweb network, there has to be an edge. (You can't fill an entire infinite universe -- you don't have infinite time and materials to work with.) There must be some nodes that are connected on one side but not the other. So they will have a net force applied in one direction. Over time, this force will accelerate the edge node toward the rest of the network. Over a long enough timescale (assuming cosmic expansion isn't enough to counteract it entirely) the network will pull itself into a smaller and smaller area.

D) "The Big Rip" hypothesis could be a problem. On a long enough timescale, it hypothesizes that endless cosmic expansion will eventually begin affecting things even on smaller scales, ripping planets, people, molecules, and eventually even atoms apart -- because the space between their component parts becomes too great for them to stay together over. If that's true, it puts a limit to how long this approach can generate energy. If that's false, it's potentially worse for your plan -- one way to explain why it wouldn't happen is that cosmic expansion only occurs in truly empty space, away from any mass ... which means your cables (having mass) wouldn't experience any expansion at all? Not sure how that squares with the rest of space expanding. Maybe it prevents space from expanding between connected nodes? Could end up having some very weird effects maybe.

The judgement is still out on whether a good enough mithril material could hypothetically exist.

Yeah ... I'm going to go ahead and put a big fat "nope" on that. The bonds between individual atoms in that material would have to be insanely strong. And while there are still big holes in our knowledge of cosmology, I think we do know enough chemistry already to determine that molecular bonds that strong just aren't possible.

You could maybe theorize some crazy stuff with degenerate matter or new 'island of stability' elements, but both of those would be extremely dense, so even if they were somehow incredibly strong, they'd be disqualified for being too heavy.

Though, if you were going to go full sci-fi and try to hand-wave a material that could do this, I'd say forget atoms entirely. Say that your cables are made of long chains of protons and neutrons, all connected in a line by the strong nuclear force, effectively becoming a single, extremely long and thin atom. Honestly, I don't think even that would be strong enough. And also it would have to be kept in constant extreme tension to avoid collapsing in on itself and forming into normal atoms instead -- it would be a tricky balancing act between the strand trying to collapse in on itself and the external force pulling it apart. Too much force, it breaks. Too little force, it collapses into individual atoms (with a spicy release of energy along the way).

[-] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org 1 points 3 hours ago

yeah, the long chain of protons and neutrons is an interesting idea. I'll think about it :)

this post was submitted on 26 Jul 2026
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