28
submitted 1 day ago by trompete@hexbear.net to c/slop@hexbear.net

The post itself is making fun of r/LeftistForAI, but then I veer into the comments and there's a lot of "AI would be good actually if weren't for capitalism."

First of all, people seem to be under the impression these so-called "AIs" can do a bunch of things they cannot do, which is really frustrating.

But my critique of the thing is so much more fundamental:

Anything worthwhile or interesting, whether it be written words, music, a game, whatever, is characterized by someone making an effort. Like they actually tried, they actually thought about it. They tried to look at the big picture as well as the details. Decisions were made about many things, should this be this way or that way? Things were tried, sometimes thrown out, sometimes kept. Someone went over it again and again.

Prompting a fucking LLM, or music generator or whatever, to just make a thing means that doesn't happen. Why would I engage with a thing that the "creator" didn't even bother engaging with?

Is nobody else feeling this way? They're all just missing the forest for the trees! WTF is going on?

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] agentant@hexbear.net 7 points 1 day ago

I think they can be useful for things like economic planning but they should never, ever be used for art. It should be a predictive tool for particular industries working under direct human supervision and nothing more.

[-] trompete@hexbear.net 15 points 1 day ago

How, exactly, is gen "AI" useful for economic planning?

I can think of many a reason why various computer software/hardware is useful for economic planning. A spreadsheet, a database, a network, a scripting language, a statistics package, a graphing library: all useful. An LLM? How does that help?

[-] agentant@hexbear.net 1 points 1 day ago

As far as I understand it, it can make can automate particular calculations in ways other machines cannot. I'm not particularly knowledgeable on it though, I'm just going off of what I've heard from other leftists. Since the machine is effectively just a plagiarism device that learns from what it's seen before, it can automate certain things and make predictions based on that.

[-] SchillMenaker@hexbear.net 13 points 1 day ago

Some deep learning algorithms are able to uncover important patterns in vast datasets, but those have been in development for decades and aren't genAI. GenAI is an incredibly elaborate "tricking into thinking that the horse can actually count" gag.

[-] agentant@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago

Ahhh ok. For clarification, are those deep learning algorithms also LLMs but are considered separate from GenAI, or are they a different category of model entirely. I just want to make sure I know the correct taxonomy.

[-] 30_to_50_Feral_PAWGs@hexbear.net 9 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

LLMs are sort of like a bastard child outgrowth of machine learning systems. They aren't necessarily hot garbage -- e.g., DeepSeek is surprisingly good at scraping and summarizing research papers that have been fed into it -- but the general-purpose commercial shit like ChatGPT, Bard, Copilot, etc. are all more or less snake oil. Doing this stuff with manuals, technical whitepapers, and so forth is probably viable, but once they started feeding in social media posts -- even StackOverflow -- they lost the plot entirely. I say this as a senior-level software developer who constantly has to look shit up because I bounce between too many languages/platforms and nearly always need a refresher for whichever one I am currently trying to beat into submission, and I have been skimming the Google AI overview shit and checking its work more often than not lately. It doesn't always understand what I am looking for and tries to shit something out of left field anyway, so I just go straight to whatever Reddit/Stack/Baeldung/NerdRanch links pop up in the first few pages of results, but when it does "get" it, it's pretty close. If it's doing anything more than summarizing a Linux man page, I still click through to its source links because the highest-updooted answer (which is what the overview uses) isn't always the most correct for what I'm doing.

Regarding other actual uses, I think it was @microfiche@hexbear.net a few weeks back that had an anecdote about using one of the public LLMs to lay out some plumbing plans for a residential space given a set of codified rules, and the slop machine came out surprisingly close to the mark because it had so many guard rails around it (due to the building/plumbing code). I could see it working as a sanity check for tradespeople, civil engineers, and architects if they're running specialized models and the LLM is ultimately just a user interface. We're not really there in the US though. Shit's too unregulated and consumes entirely too much energy for what is still ultimately a novelty.

[-] agentant@hexbear.net 8 points 1 day ago

For whatever we use it for, it should certainly never take acres of land and comical quantities of water to use it.

[-] PKMKII@hexbear.net 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I think that’s directly tied to the “feed it everything and the kitchen sink” approach of the general purpose, household name AI. It’s a brute force way of training the AI, and running that analysis on such gigantic data sets inevitably means huge power draws.

[-] trompete@hexbear.net 5 points 1 day ago

In computer science, starting in the 50s, there was a discipline called "artificial intelligence". Despite some interesting things coming out of that, by the 90s/2000s it was widely decried as being vaguely defined, over-promising and under-delivering. It was a good idea then to ditch the "artificial intelligence" label if you wanted funding. Better to do "machine learning", a more defined field (slash rebrand), focusing (mostly) on approximating functions using large amounts of sample data.

For example, one might feed it 100 000 scans of hand-written digits (from postal codes), and that would result in a function that could tell you whether some scan of a hand-written digit was a 1 or a 2 or any other digit. This was an early application, used to automatically sort letters for the postal service.

The "GenAI" version would be that in reverse, i.e. you tell it draw a 1, and it will generate something that looks like a hand-written 1.

"Deep leaning" just refers to the use of so-called "artificial neural networks", one of these "machine learning" algorithms, which has now taken center stage. The "deep" here refers to the many layers of the "neural net". The word "neural" here is misleading. There is a very superficial similarity between this and biological neurons, as they do differ in pretty much every imaginable way.

Neural nets are used in LLMs, but they are also widely used in e.g. image recognition. So one might call both of them "deep learning". If you wanted to sell a drone that autonomously dive-bombs a tank, that may very well use an "artificial neural net" to identify the tank. But it's not in any way "generative", so you can't call it "GenAI". You could call it "deep learning" or "AI" though, if you were a marketing person.

[-] trompete@hexbear.net 6 points 1 day ago

It actually does not learn from what it's seen before, or at least framing it as such is widely misleading.

These things are fed with ridiculously massive amounts of data during so-called "training", which adjust the weights (parameters) of the model. But that happens when they are created, all the parameters are set in stone afterwards, when the LLM is being used. During use, they do have a (limited in size) context window of tokens (words or rather parts of words, including the chat history) that influence their next output token.

If, for example, the LLM outputs something undesirable (aka "makes a mistake", which the thing has no concept of to begin with), and you chastise it about that, it is likely to promise you to not do that again (apologizing is part of its "training"), which is a false promise, since it cannot guarantee that. Since your complaint is now part of its context window, that may (or may not) actually help it avoid the mistake for a while. But if you reset the the context it will retain nothing, and even if you do not reset it, it will eventually "forget" about it, since it can only retain so many tokens in its context at any one time.

this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2026
28 points (91.2% liked)

Slop.

876 readers
322 users here now

For posting all the anonymous reactionary bullshit that you can't post anywhere else.

Rule 1: All posts must include links to the subject matter, and no identifying information should be redacted.

Rule 2: If your source is a reactionary website, please use archive.is instead of linking directly.

Rule 3: No sectarianism.

Rule 4: TERF/SWERFs Not Welcome

Rule 5: No bigotry of any kind, including ironic bigotry.

Rule 6: Do not post fellow hexbears.

Rule 7: Do not individually target federated instances' admins or moderators.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS