When does. Trying to convince someone become trying to manipulate someone (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 6 hours ago by solidheron@sh.itjust.works to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

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I had a better way of articulating it, but I went with that.

So for the longest time I felt like I shouldn't give people reasons behind an answer because you can put in the reasons behind it can sway their decisions. Also I know that I had incomplete data set. Humans do lean on each other to think and you can inject what idea and have it spread.

To attempt something more coherent. You can do propaganda when you try to reason. It's just natural to talk as if they know and just bridge the gaps in their knowledge with any old phrase

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[-] zzffyfajzkzhnsweqm@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 hours ago

I would also like to hear other people persoective on that.

Because obvious answer would be to convince them on subconscious level instead by directly convincind them.

But a mere praise can often change someone interest and even values.

It gets even trickier if we are talking about raising a kid. You actually want them to adopt your values etc... You are supposed to praise the behaviour you want. Especially if they are to small to understand reasoning. And you fully understand you are completely shapping their personality on a level they do not understand.

So I do not know. Maybe all of that is manipulation but not all manipulation is bad?

[-] zzffyfajzkzhnsweqm@sh.itjust.works 5 points 5 hours ago

I got a better answer just by reading a definition of manipulation:

to change by deceptive or unfair means so as to serve one's purpose

It is as much about the means as it is about the purpose. So if you are manipulating a kid so they behave in a way that will help him get throug life this is not manipulation. But if you manipulate them into something that only serves you... Yeah that is manipulation.

So in case of convincing someone in a debate it depends. If you goal is to win a debate by manipulation, so you can feel as a winner, that is manipulation. But if you want yo educate them this is not.

[-] solidheron@sh.itjust.works 1 points 5 hours ago

You can shape the personality of adults if you really wanted. Children will take after their parents, but that could be because of genetics.

So if you wanted to go by dictionary definitions "serve one's purpose" can be expanded to parasitism and and symbiosis. You can to see for mutually beneficial purposes. Or you can just see for purely selfish purposes and at the cost of the person you're receiving (scam).

this post was submitted on 12 Jul 2026

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