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World Cup tourists aren’t leaving tips — and restaurants are fighting back (nypost.com)
submitted 2 months ago by to c/world@lemmy.world
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[–] 65 points 2 months ago (5 children)

No one should tip anyone. Tipping supports wage theft. If no one tipped, business models that depend on tipping would find no one to hire, so they'd be forced out of business, or need to start paying something closer to a living wage. Yes, this would happen on the backs of those currently working such jobs, but if nothing ever changes, then nothing ever changes.

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  • [–] 25 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I owned a small resto/bar in Spain. My employee's minimum wage was dictated by a sectorial collective bargaining agreement. I had to pay them at least that amount, altough I could pay more for especially good/experienced workers. The base salary was almost 3 times minimum wage. On top of that I paid almost 50% of their salary to the social security system, which covers retirement and health system contributions ( the country has full universal care). Tips are customary, but in the 5 to 10% range, but never required. No server would dream of making an issue for not getting a tip. tips are a thank you, not an obligation.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 months ago (1 child) 
    10 IF NOTHING CHANGES:
20    NOTHING CHANGES
30 GOTO 10
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  • [–] 4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    This is not any programming language that I recognize and I am outraged

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    It's faketran

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  • [–] -4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    You think that, but then they always have a revolving door of people in a bad enough position, young and kicked out by their family, newly divorced, any number of reasons they're desperate enough to seek a quick hire and fast cash. Most have a criminal record hindering better employment, the restaurants don't drug test but even grocery stores do, if you smoke weed in an illegal state fuck yourself, if you have a real drug problem in any state fuck yourself again.

    And call me when you find a way to bring everyone in this country together on ANY issue. Good fucking luck lmao.

    The only way to actually change it would require all those customers to actually make a sacrifice themselves and stop going to the restaurant at all. This would still fuck the workers, but it would be the only thing that also affects the owners. Of course most people refuse to learn how to make their own burgers and chickey strips, so that'll never happen either..

    But at least I'm not deluding myself into thinking I'm hurting the workers for their own good. Why don't you just bend the server over your knee and spank her for being a bad girl? I'm sure (just like not tipping) it hurts you more than it hurts them, poor baby, you shouldn't have to discipline your servers like that, when will they learn??

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  • [–] 3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, rather than a spanking, maybe you could just make a law to make employers pay a livable wage?

    If they can't because they would go out of business, then they should go out of business.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    We agree.

    But as it stands, the servers do rely on tips.

    And the only person you're hurting by not tipping in the current system is that specific server.

    No you're not "helping them actually" by hurting them. That is what abusers say. You are siding with the exploitative business and telling them "it's ok that you operate this way."

    Either boycott all tip reliant businesses, or tip while you're already crossing the proverbial picket line. It's that easy.

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    The "abuser" in this situation is the employer that doesn't pay enough so that their employees can pay rent and then shrugging it off as if there is nothing that can be done. As if there is a law stopping them from paying a fair wage.

    They know that the server will stay on a less than livable wage because otherwise they'll fire them and find someone else who is desperate. This is predatory behaviour.

    By not tipping I am not "siding with the exploitative business". Continuing to perpetuate this "culture of tipping" is, however.

    I DO already boycott all businesses that make servers rely on tips for a livable wage. I do also tip servers for good service, but it is in addition to their wage, not to make up what the employer refuses to pay.

    It really is that easy.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago

    And the one who supports the employer that doesn't pay their workers fairly: The customer. It's both of you especially if you're "hitting the server for their own good" by not tipping and pretending that makes you a good person.

    I DO already boycott all businesses that make servers rely on tips for a livable wage. I do also tip servers for good service, but it is in addition to their wage, not to make up what the employer refuses to pay.

    Good, that's what I'm saying.

    It really is that easy.

    Hey, that's my line!

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  • [+] -10 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    That's a very myopic view of things. Let's talk about child labor, for one. Child labor is wrong. But no family, let alone families, went "You know what, this is wrong. We're not sending Timmy to the mines, no matter how many of us starve from the loss of extra income." Your solution is that: That people should bypass unionizing, bypass striking, bypass political engagement, and should just jump straight into starving instead of working these jobs.

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  • [+] 6 points 2 months ago (1 child)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] -4 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Dipshit, my argument was that there is a better world than that, and we found it by collectively empowering people, not starving an already disenfranchised group under the boot of capitalism. If you think a bunch of servers not making rent is going to magically bring about a utopia, be my guest, just, Jesus. I hoped better of you, I guess.

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  • [–] 5 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    I mean, may be a hot take, but I don't think people who usually send kids to work are such great parents. They maybe "have to", because they can't stop fucking and have like 15 kids, so of course Timmy needs to go to the mine, or else they couldn't feed all of them

    And people being selfish like that also translates to the server problem - if any underpaid server inherited a restaurant inherited a restaurant, do you think they would go "I'm gonna be different. I'm gonna pay my staff a fair wage, and allow them to have a union"? Lol, of course not. Probably all of them would think "I had to work for 2$/hour, now it's your turn. I fucking to mine". So yes, I do believe starving is the right solution, because I do not believe many of them care about a systemic change.

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  • [–] -3 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    Buddy, all people can be selfish. That same argument applies to very industry under capitalism. And you think everyone starving is going to lead to some collective uprising? I'd love for you to read a history book; sure, starving people are truly the most altruistic.

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  • [+] -12 points 2 months ago (3 children)

    Accelerating your fellow workers deeper into poverty isn't the way.

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  • [–] 11 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    But paying your fellow workers wages, because their boss wouldn't is?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    You say that like the prices wouldn't just increase by 15 to 20% if tipping wages became illegal.

    Because that's what they're doing.

    All you're doing if you refuse to tip is taking money out of a fellow working class person's pocket.

    https://epionline.org/oped/is-it-time-to-end-tipping-no-servers-will-lose-money-and-service-will-suffer/

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  • [–] 2 points 2 months ago (1 child)

    But subsidizing their abusive employer is, right?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 months ago (1 child)

    Wage theft is the largest type of crime in the US. A huge amount of employers are abusive, not all of them have workers at tipping wages.

    Maybe instead of taking money out of another working-class person's pocket, we need to actually have some class solidarity.

    If you don't want a tip, don't eat there. But eating in a place like that and refusing to tip is just hurting other working people.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 months ago

    Ah yes, by buying my dinner with my money I, not their fucking boss, am taking money out of their pockets.

    You see, this is the problem. You think solidarity is just a ticket to unbounded gains, so you encourage a pattern of behaviours that only contribute to the downward spiral. You're not ready for solidarity, yet. You need to start with trust. If you don't think your clients should be able to expect you to set prices that cover the cost of the exchanged goods and services, that they should instead guilt splurge so that your notoriously wage stealing boss, then you aren't in a position to be serious about contributing to a movement of solidarity.

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