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European Union to ban cash payments above €10,000 (www.theportugalnews.com)
submitted 4 months ago by to c/europe@feddit.org
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[+] [S] -45 points 4 months ago (38 children)

I'm OK with this law. Stops a 20-something from going into a shop with a bag of cash and walking out with a rolex or a luxury car. Plenty of drug dealers and other gangsters do this, and the police is annoyed.

Thankfully the police can now confiscate any item on you that you can't prove is yours and how you legally got it.

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  • [–] 43 points 4 months ago* (3 children)

    Thankfully the police can now confiscate any item on you that you can't prove is yours and how you legally got it.

    Are you missing a /s? Do you know how long it would take me to prove the shirt on my back is mine and how I legally got it if a cop wanted to harass me about it?

    If you own an expensive watch are you just supposed to keep the 12-year-old receipt in your wallet in case you get stopped by a cop?

    My wife's wedding ring isn't worth $10k, but it still is a hefty chunk of change. 1) I dont know how I would prove to a cop that it's not worth 10k, and 2) even if it was, I don't know how I would prove I didn't buy it with drug money.

    This is the equivalent to US civil forfeiture, which has been shown time and time again to be a broken system rife with abuse.

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  • [+] [S] -6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Not at all, and no need to keep receipts on you. The cops need to get approval from an on-call prosecutor (kind-of) and have probable cause. They're not going to stop a random citizen about their wedding ring, and even if they did the prosecutor wouldn't allow them to take it. This targets known criminals without any income flaunting expensive shit. Now their shit gets taken away, and I'm good with it.

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  • [–] 16 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    Thankfully the police can now confiscate any item on you that you can’t prove is yours and how you legally got it.

    This is what is wrong. I am not the one that should prove that what I do is legal, it is the police that must prove that what I am doing is illegal.

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  • [–] -2 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    The trouble with that is it can be very hard to actually prove for known scumbags. I live in a small country and they have a "criminal assets bureau" which can bring folks in massive houses with fancy cars and expensive watches to court and the burden of proof is lower.

    It basically boils down to "there's no way this cunt can legally afford all this" then it gets seized.

    Before it was created you had criminal kingpins showing up to pick up their dole (social security) weekly while raking in massive money criminally.

    It's not abused like that eminent domain thing in the US is though. There's still court required.

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    I know, but my point still stand: someone is innocent until proven guilty.

    Seizing somthing only because "there is no way this scumbag can legally afford all this" is nothing different from jailing someone because "there is no way you have not violated some law".
    I am not required to justify myself (in this case: paying something with cash accepted by the state), it is police's job to prove that the cash I used is obtained illegally, not mine to prove that it is legal.

    I undertand that for 10.000 euros or more it is better to use a bank tranfer to pay, less risks for everyone, but assuming that I am a criminal just because I do it don't really solve the problem.

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  • [–] 0 points 4 months ago* (1 child)

    I agree generally but this isn't used for small sums. You're talking hundreds of thousands / millions in highly visible ill gotten gains for it to be deployed.

    And I think 10k is a bullshit amount for this new law. People buy cars second hand all the time with cash fully legit.

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago

    I agree generally but this isn’t used for small sums. You’re talking hundreds of thousands / millions in highly visible ill gotten gains for it to be deployed.

    Ok, but if you need to have hundreds of thousands / millions in highly visible ill gotten gains before you ask "wait, how he is making all this money without working" you have other problems

    And I think 10k is a bullshit amount for this new law. People buy cars second hand all the time with cash fully legit.

    Every amount you choose is bullshit. Even in Italy that the limit is 5000, paying under the table is not difficult, you just split the payments.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago

    We have CAB and the Special Criminal Courts, two systems that currently do the job of a piss poor police force. They are a huge target for misuse and abuse should we ever see a rightward leap in our government.

    Luckily we have the best electoral system.

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  • [–] 12 points 4 months ago* (5 children)

    Stops a 20-something from going into a shop with a bag of cash and walking out with a rolex or a luxury car

    I'm sorry, but what exactly is the problem with that

    And also I don't know what world you're living in where a €10k car is considered luxury (unless you're saying all cars are luxury, in which case we may have some common ground)

    If a 20-something (or any-something, more importantly) has that money and they want to spend it, what's the problem

    Why should someone be made a criminal for selling a car for cash

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    A 20 something walking into a shop with a duffel bag full of cash is definitely suspicious

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Same with a 50 something walking into a car dealership with a briefcase full of cash. Or a 40 something buying a condo in Munich with cash. Something ain't right here.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago

    And why exactly ?
    Once I paid my fair share of taxes, what I do with my money is not your business (nor state's business).
    If I want to withdraw money from the bank every month and keep under the sink until I have enough money to buy a home with cash I am free to do it. It is smart ? Probably not so much but it is not illegal either.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 4 months ago

    Criminals use it to launder money. And it's not only €10k, it's €10k and above. So a 20 year old with no job or income comes into a dealership, buys an Audi RS3 for €80k in cash and we're all supposed to pretend that's fine?

    If you have over €10k in cash and want to spend it, sure, go right ahead, but you'll need to prove where you got it from. Banks have a KYC requirements, put the money there and arrange for a bank transfer. It's not like cash is banned.

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  • [–] 10 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    Thankfully the police can now confiscate any item on you that you can't prove is yours and how you legally got it.

    You won't be thanking them when a cop takes your shit because you don't have your papers.

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  • [+] [S] -8 points 4 months ago

    They obviously go through the legal system so it's not confiscated forever if you can show that it's actually yours. This is a law designed to remove expensive items from gansters. If you're not doing shady shit you'll never have anything taken from you by the police.

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  • [–] 8 points 4 months ago (16 children)

    Why should people have to prove that they got things legally to the police?

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  • [–] 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

    Because of taxes. It's pretty standard practice.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Those aren't submitted to the police

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    So you're ok with people proving to the government that they got things legally and you just have an issue with which government representative does the checking? It's a valid complaint but personally I think it's a minor issue.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    How is it a minor issue? There's a difference between a cop asking you to prove you own things and a government official asking you to file taxes. One is a member of a violent arm of the government which enforces laws and the other is a bureaucrat.

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  • [–] 3 points 4 months ago (1 child)

    The government doesn't just ask you to file your taxes. They can investigate what you own and ask you to prove how you got it. They can use prosecutors and police to conduct searches and investigations. The police can also inform the bureaucrat that they suspect you're braking tax laws. And yes, if the police see someone carrying a bunch of catalytic converters they can stop them and ask to prove how they got them. You're talking about it like police investigating ownership is something new and dangerous while in reality it's pretty standard thing. They will investigate all sort of suspected activity and carrying large amounts of cash or often stolen items can be one of them. This "violent arm of the government" interacts with people all the time, pretending they are some kill squads that should not get close to people unless they have evidence of crime or something is silly.

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  • [+] [S] -8 points 4 months ago (9 children)

    People won't have to. Criminals though...

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  • [–] 6 points 4 months ago* (6 children)

    How do you determine if someone is a criminal? Also, pretty sure the law in post applies to everyone.

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  • [–] [S] -3 points 4 months ago (5 children)

    All laws apply to everyone, but not everyone is subjected to them. If you don't have a drivers licence you're not subject to laws related to driving a car.

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  • [–] 5 points 4 months ago (4 children)

    Everyone is subject to laws related to driving a car. They're not going to let you off the hook just because you don't have a licence.

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  • [–] [S] 0 points 4 months ago (3 children)

    Yeah, that was my point? The laws apply, but you will never have to think about them.

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  • [–] 2 points 4 months ago (2 children)

    Idk man. I don't trust the cops to act in the interest of the people.

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