Lirton comments on Ukraine doesn't need symbolic EU membership, Zelenskyy says

[–] Lirton@lemmy.today 7 points 4 months ago* (9 children)

Zelenskiy wants to secure the best deal for Ukraine. Maybe he acts impudently, but he is somewhat right. I think that he supports an idea of "better try something than do nothing" .

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[–] misk@piefed.social 2 points 4 months ago (8 children)

Matters between states are rarely about who’s right but about who has more leverage. Ukraine has very little leverage.

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[–] Mihies@programming.dev 1 point 4 months ago (7 children)

No cards, eh?

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[–] misk@piefed.social 2 points 4 months ago (6 children)

In other words, yes. It doesn’t make it any less true that Trump said it that way if that’s what you’re referring to.

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[–] Mihies@programming.dev 1 point 4 months ago (5 children)

Though it's not true, they have cards, but only a non demented leader can understand those.

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[–] misk@piefed.social 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (4 children)

What are those cards that Ukraine has when it comes to accelerated EU accession? There’s this unfortunate part where it requires unanimous decision of all member states, some of which have interests that do not align with Ukraine. This means that each of 27 members have the strongest card there is and there’s plenty who will use it, particularly countries that are afraid of Ukrainian agriculture industry. We might not like it but that’s the reality and pretending otherwise won’t change it.

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[–] Mihies@programming.dev 1 point 4 months ago (3 children)

It's always like that, EU members, specially those bordering with a candidate country or those feeling threatened, blackmail the shit out of them. But Ukraine is a huge market, plenty of rebuilding once the war ends and also a buffer zone between Russia and EU.

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[–] misk@piefed.social 1 point 4 months ago* (2 children)

None of those cards trump a single member state whose agriculture industry is threatened by Ukraine. Ukraine already „sold” their construction contracts as a part of earlier weapons deals. Ukraine joining EU would also mean that there’s less buffer between EU and Russia, not more. Do we want to go to war because EU defence clauses are stronger than NATO ones? Plenty of countries are thinking about this too.

Western countries like Germany would enjoy another country to do a brain drain on but that’s only a handful of votes.

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[–] Mihies@programming.dev 2 points 4 months ago (1 child)

Do we want to go to war because EU defence clauses are stronger than NATO ones?

We are already at war, a half assed one though. If Ukraine falls, it's bad or worse news for us. And the world.

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[–] misk@piefed.social 1 point 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

As Pole, I agree that we’re at war already. Someone in Portugal or Ireland might have vastly different opinion however. EU, which is a trade union first and foremost, is so big that there’s not enough unifying interest in defence to use it as an argument for Ukraine’s accession and for some it’s an argument against it. If Ukraine is looking for a military alliance it’d be best to look for allies who are existentially threatened by their demise - Nordics and other ex-Soviet states, and that should happen outside of EU frameworks to be worth something IMO.

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