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NDP statement on Iran bombings (www.ndp.ca)

submitted 2 weeks ago by streetfestival@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca

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Following the events in Iran, Alexandre Boulerice, NDP Foreign Affairs Critic, issued the following statement:

"The NDP strongly condemns the American and Israeli bombings of Iran. This is a dangerous escalation that risks dragging the entire region into a major conflict. The oppressive and bloody regime of the Ayatollahs is reprehensible, but its nuclear program must be managed through the United Nations and the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA). In fact, its Director General, Mr. Grossi, recently indicated that he was working with the Iranian administration to resume inspections and reiterated that there could be no solution other than a diplomatic one.

The NDP deplores the Carney government's decision to blindly support this dangerous venture by Israel and Donald Trump's administration. We want Canada to be a voice for diplomacy, peace, and international law."

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[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 33 points 2 weeks ago

Unfortunately Carney is stuck in a harder position. The NDP is free to make statements like this because they have no real significance, but Carney is still trying to thread the needle with the Americans on various trade matters so he can't go straight to negative statements.

I don't like it, this is the first time I've found myself seriously disagreeing with something Carney said, but at the same time I can't really fault him too badly. Ultimately it's more important what governments do rather than what they say, so we'll see if Canada continues to stay firmly out of this one.

[-] lemonySplit@lemmy.ca 30 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Why bother trying to negotiate with the Americans? Iran was actively in peace talks with the US and Israel when this bombing happened. It further demonstrates that there's no point negotiating with trump, he's a bad faith negotiator

[-] Tm12@lemmy.ca 17 points 2 weeks ago

Agree. Why justify this type of incursion when we have literally been threatened?

[-] FaceDeer@fedia.io 2 points 2 weeks ago

"Negotiation" can be an attempt to come to a deal, or it can be an attempt to keep Trump distracted until some different jangly keys come along to occupy his attention.

[-] BinzyBoi@piefed.ca 23 points 2 weeks ago

If he can talk about the issues of American hegemony at Davos, he can hold true to that word in a statement like this.

Oh no, the U.S. is gonna negatively affect trade with us... as if Trump isn't literally out there threatening to abandon CUSMA, a deal that he made in his first term to replace NAFTA.

If their word never seems to matter, why should we hold ourselves to their standards?

[-] Smaile@lemmy.ca -1 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Because we don't want Donald to have a fit and send troups, he's currently invaiding his second country this term and I doubt he'll be stoping anytime soon.

[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 22 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

He could have said nothing. It would have been cowardly, but slightly less so.

[-] brynden_rivers_esq@lemmy.ca 12 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah this is my thought too…like if you’re so scared that you can’t say what you think is right, fine…but keep your damn trap shut and quit licking boots.

[-] floofloof@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 weeks ago

Unless he actually believes in this...

[-] skeptomatic@lemmy.ca -3 points 2 weeks ago

How the fuck you think you know what he thinks? These types of comments are measured well, not just blurted out.

[-] brynden_rivers_esq@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 weeks ago

I think he’s not a moron, and so he doesn’t actually think it’s good for the US to attack Iran. Of course it’s measured, he wouldn’t say “rah rah, go trump go” if he didn’t think he should. But he thinks he should because of cowardice.

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

He could have made a simple statement urging calm and restraint. No need to take sides.

[-] Smaile@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Not with the isreal lobby pulling the world leaders strings. Could use Donald to attack Canada for not helping them, you've seen isreal lash out at those who don't support them.

[+] theacharnian@lemmy.ca -8 points 2 weeks ago

Nah that's a silly antisemitic trope, refuted easily by the simple fact that Canada recognized Palestine a few months ago.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 4 points 1 week ago

It is not antisemetic trope progaganda. Recognition means nothing when you deny that occupation and genocide is real, when you do nothing against occupied land being sold in canadian synaguoges, whrn you have idf soldiers speaking in canadian schools and ehen you deny paledtinians right under internstional laws like having the right to an army and the right to return .

He is even lying about the embargo on arms to israel

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

Saying that Israel controls the world's governments is an antisemitic trope that is entirely unnecessary for condemning Israeli apartheid and the Gaza genocide. I brought up the recognition of Palestine not to say that Canada has a pro-palestinine policy, but to make the simple point that our policy is not controlled by Israel (if we were, we would not have done it).

Does there exist a big pro-israel bias in western mainstream politics? Yes. But that is not *control". Control implies absolute power on the part of the controller and lack of agency on the part of the controlled.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

Saying that Israel controls the world’s governments is an antisemitic trope that is entirely unnecessary for condemning Israeli apartheid and the Gaza genocide.

No it is not . Israel do not represent all jews and will never do. Let start for the start even before the creation of the state Zionists who create the state killed multiple jews they ever directly ordered the assassination of an anti Zionist jew journalist named Jacob Israël de Haan. Many jews at that time even rejected the idea of a Jewish state is necessary especially not one created by ethnically cleansing the local population . Israel did sterilize Ethiopian jews unvoluntary, you can also see how they call some other jews with the term self hating jews and you can see videos of Israeli police attacking anti occupation jews

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2013-01-27/ty-article/.premium/ethiopians-fooled-into-birth-control/0000017f-f512-d044-adff-f7fb92c30000

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cw6NWdg-nT0

So based on all of the facts saying Israel control a country is not antisemitic although I disagree with those people who believe it

I brought up the recognition of Palestine not to say that Canada has a pro-palestinine policy, but to make the simple point that our policy is not controlled by Israel

Words with no action and without acknowledging the nature of the conflict is called hypocrisy my friend. Everybody know that Palestine is occupied and the nature of occupation is a settler colonialism one so why did it take 78 years to finally pretend to support recognition of Palestine. It is a shame that many got fooled by politicians words. A state with not all it's right that international laws give them is not a real state . Carney is saying that the victims of settler colonialism should not have an army to defend itself when it is free but Israel have just to return part of the west bank and nothing else.

Netenyahu as the head of the government decided to put extremists like ben gvir in his government. Netenyahu as the head of the government is the one who is approving more settlements aka colonies so he bring more settlers that are harrasing, beating and killing west bankers so the sanctions just be on Netenyahu himself and the state of Israel. Carney did not ask to investigate the selling of west bank occupied land in Canadian synagogues All of this show that Carney is lying about opposing settlements

Here 18 years of documentation of Israel crimes by an israeli human right organization

https://www.youtube.com/@btselem/videos

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Pretty presumptuous of you to assume that someone pointing out antisemitism to you needs a lesson on all the ways the genocidal Israeli apartheid regime is a genocidal apartheid regime.

Beyond that I've nothing to add to what I previously wrote. It's pretty clear.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

Don't repeat Zionist propaganda, then. There's nothing antisemitic about saying Israel controls the USA, although I disagree that it is the case

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 week ago

I'm not going to debate this silliness. Educate yourself.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 0 points 1 week ago

I am educated. Your logic makes zero sense you agree that Israel don't represent jews at the same time you are implying that saying Israel control the USA means jews control the USA. It effing doesn't

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 week ago

Sigh. Multiple things can be true simultaneously. Israel doesn't represent all Jews. Israel doesn't have to represent all Jews for people to ascribe to it classic antisemitic tropes. Calling out those antisemitic tropes because perpetuating them hurts all Jews is not spreading Israeli propaganda.

It's not that hard.

The Bloods and the Crips do not represent black culture. They don't have to represent black culture for people to ascribe to them classic anti-black racist tropes. Calling out those racist tropes because perpetuating them hurts all black people is not doing gang propaganda.
TERFs do not represent all feminist politics. They don't have to represent all feminist politics for people to ascribe to them classic sexist tropes. Calling out those sexist tropes because perpetuating them hurts all women is not transphobic propaganda.

I can keep going. This is the kind of hair splitting you need to be able to do if you want to call yourself educated.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

You are assuming that anybody who think Israel is controlling the USA are antisemite who really just means jews controlling the USA . It is you who hurt jews which your stupid logic and false accusations . You analogies has nothing to do and not comparable to the discussion .

You are not only uneducated you can't comprehend basic logic.

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

A, a, a, a, careful there. Read what I actually wrote, I was very careful. I said "people ascribe tropes". I didn't talk about what people are, I talked about what tropes they ascribe.

At this point, I don't think I have anything else to discuss with you. Toodles.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It is not an anti-Semitic trope. Saying that people are just using antisemitic trope don't make your statement any much less stupid and dangerous

[-] patatas@sh.itjust.works -1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Here's the thing though: Israel would not exist without the US, but the US would exist without Israel.

So, the idea that it's some (((Israeli puppet masters))) controlling the US, rather than the US being ultimately in charge, is indeed an antisemitic trope — one which we are seeing pushed by US far-right influencers who, wouldn't you know it, are rabid antisemites.

Edit: I do agree however that Canada's recognition of the Palestinian state was pretty hollow

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

Conflating antisemitism with antizionism is what is realty antisemitic. Israel have Muslims and Christians who some even agree with the policies of occupation and are joining the occupation force. So the idea that saying Israel is doing this is antisemites is some BS .

Are you denying that aipac is not influencing congressman and put pressure on them to agree with Israel policies of settler colonialism? Do you really think there is no similar lobby in Canada that try to shut down anti occupation supporters?

I agree israel do not control the USA it is about serving their own perspective evil interests but people who don't see that are not necessarly antisemitic but just naive and think usa support for israel is unconditionally for no reasons

[-] patatas@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I am not conflating antisemitism with anti-zionism. My point is that Trump and his cabinet (and the Dem leadership) are Zionists. Earlier you implied that Trump is having his "strings pulled". All I am saying is, that's not the power dynamic here.

Edit: sorry — the strings pulled comment was someone else. But it was the context for my reply

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

You heard the word Israel you immediately thought about jews you are indeed conflating both. I never applied that Trump is having his “strings pulled”. I am one of the very few online who reject the idea that Trump is going to war just for Israel alone and that israel is blackmailing him to murder people

[-] patatas@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 week ago

See my edit to the last post - and tbh I think we actually agree on all this.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

I am more bothered at how you hear Israel you automatically think of Jews as if all jews support Israel policies and Zionism

[-] patatas@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Please at least listen and give me the benefit of the doubt here.

The thing I objected to is the "trump having his strings pulled" part which plays into to well-worn antisemitic tropes of a cabal of Jews running the world like puppeteers.

I'll admit that there is some ambiguity in how to read that initial comment, however, and I can totally understand where you're coming from with your reading of what they said initially.

The Majority Report did a good short segment recently about this. I was just about to see if I could find it, and I'll post it if I do.

Edit: here's the clip. The point I am trying to make is explained at around the 5-6 minute span. (For the record, so there's no confusion, I am posting this edit after a few more comments back and forth following this one) https://youtu.be/XhSuQpFPhwo

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

The thing I objected to is the “trump having his strings pulled” part which plays into to well-worn antisemitic tropes of a cabal of Jews running the world like puppeteers.

Again those people believe that trump having his strings pulled by **Israel **not jews. You hear Israel you automatically think jews . You are not giving anybody who believe that the benefit of the doubt that they really mean Israel not jews. People who believe the theory believe it not being they think jews control the USA but rather because American Zionists are buying politicians with Aipac and because the Epstein files show strong relation between Epstein and Israeli and Zionist leaders. They also don't understand that american elites profits from wars and how the middle east was a very important region for empires for centuries

The Middle East was the only viable path for the Silk Road. The Roman Empire and the Parthian/Sassanid Empires fought for centuries over the Levant and Mesopotamia specifically to control the customs duties of these trade routes.
The Siege of Constantinople (1453) : this siege forced Europeans power to find a way around the middle east
The middle east was called the lifeline of the British empire and Britain wanted to prevent the Russian Empire from moving south into the Middle East, which would have allowed Russia to cut off Britain’s access to India

The USA would like to control the region and the straight of Hormuz that is exactly why he attacked Iran. We have too much example of how foreign intervention do not help the population and instead create failed states and civil wars

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 week ago

Creating failed states and civil wars is the point. They'd rather Iran be a war-torn wasteland than be a thorn in their side.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 2 points 1 week ago

I agree. Yet the other fool keep talking about how the usa and israel will save Iranians

[-] patatas@sh.itjust.works 0 points 1 week ago

OK so you aren't willing to give me the same benefit of the doubt that I tried to extend to you.

I doubt that you'll believe me when I say (truthfully) that I am an anti-Zionist Jew, but you seem to be making a lot of assumptions and extrapolations about what I believe, even when I am telling you, I think quite clearly but perhaps not(?), the narrow point I am making about the words used in someone else's post.

[-] mrdown@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

I am sorry but it is you who started with the idea that Israel controlling the USA is just an antisemitism propaganda talking point. I don't think you can blame me when I keep hearing false accusation of antisemitism that in real life can cost someone job . You don't know the financial situation of those people

[-] patatas@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

I'll again concede that there is definitely ambiguity in the comment that we're discussing.

And I hear what you're saying about consequences of unfounded accusations - but luckily, we're on a pseudonymous forum where it's (hopefully!) possible to discuss how various words and phrases can carry unintended meaning, and discuss all this (hopefully!) without any of those dire consequences.

This topic is, to say the least, incredibly fraught. And I totally see why you understood my initial comment the way you did. I could have done much better with my phrasing, which is obviously ironic given the point I was trying to make.

But I do believe we're on the same side here. ✌️

[-] patatas@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 week ago

I posted the clip from the Majority Report above. I hope you'll watch it, because it shows how we do in fact broadly agree, but makes the distinction about the construction of "Israel controls the US" vs the other way around, which, again, is the point I was making this entire time.