24
Fallout S2E8 & general season 2 disscussion
(thelemmy.club)
Rules for Movies & TV Discussion
Any discussion of Disney properties should contain a (cw: imperialism) tag. If your post isn't tagged appropriately it will be removed.
Anti-Bong Joon-ho trolling will result in an immediate ban from c/movies and submitted to the site administrators for review.
On Star Trek Sunday only posts discussing how we might achieve space communism are permitted. Non-Star Trek related content will be removed and you will be temporarily banned until the following Sunday.
Here's a list of tons of leftist movies.
Have to agree to disagree, imo he's portrayed as a megalomaniacal asshole and we don't really get any inner monologue details from him so saying he genuinely believes those things rather than using them as propaganda and being primarily motivated by self enrichment and power hunger isn't supported by in game stuff anymore than my opinions are
the in-game Legion co-founder Joshua Graham is of the opinion:
Which while proving neither of us conclusively right supports my opinion more than yours(i.e. if Graham could come to that conclusion so could Salo)
We know what he says though, and he always speaks about his lasting legacy and the potential for the legion to last. The idea that he would believe the legion would die with him is totally incongruent with his characterisation and lessens the impact of the criticism levied by his former partner. If he is fully aware that this is a doomed project he just did for the lulz, then Graham seeing the legion as such is less meaningful.
What I say is supported by the text of Edward Sallow's dialogue. You're assuming that he truly believes what his critics say, which doesn't really fit with a guy doing an unironic rome cosplay.
If he's just a con-man and nobody believes in this project, then the tragedy of the horror stories of the true believers in the legion cause cease to be impact. The praetorian guard who speaks of his cultural legacy being annihilated and his family being erased and spread to the winds ceases being a tragic story of the nature of imperalism and becomes a comical (but not actually funny) story about a con man, and the guy who briefly has to abandon the tough guy act to weep for the story of what the legion did to his entire way of being ceases to be meaningful. It also reduces the impact of you going all the way through the story seeing the horrors of the legion before finally facing someone who genuinely argues for the necessity of the legion using what the writers thought was genuine philosophically sound arguments.
If Edward Sallow doesn't believe what he says, then he isn't nearly as interesting.
Again I don't think its confirmed by anything canon one way or another
But imo his past as a member of a far-left mutual aid org and very deliberate choice to use the Roman Empire as inspiration for a culture which could be a far stronger military force, and far crueller culture than the former Arizona tribals were, leading directly to his own personal enrichment points more to a self-aware and cynical interpretation of his motavations
And I don't necessarily think it has to be black and white, he may have wished the Legion to live on as a stable entity after his death, but facts like him not appointing a successor(or some senate like structure) that could replace him when he knew he almost certainly going to die from his brain tumour in the near future point more towards him being a megalomaniac who believed no one would be able to lead the 'magnificent' society he'd built, after his inevitable death
I don't agree, even if Creaser himself is cynically motivated those true believers are still true believers in the project as he's presented it in public to them, and as they understand it
Again. We have the statements of the man himself, his followers and his formers followers, and the themes of the narrative presented this far on one side and... "Nothing says it isn't true" on the other.
If Edward Sallow doesn't believe and Graham knows then the entire legion is just a prank and Grahame critiques aren't sober considerations bought on in the wake of his experiences Spoken as he attempts to atone through flawed means but him talking about that time he pulled an epic prank. Graham isn't a man who after his very lowest point reconsidered everything he was to return to the faith of his youth tainted by the horrors he perpetrated, but a dick who did a prank and is doing another one.
The people speaking of the ways tbe horrors of the legion have impacted them as if they were a favor aren't sober and horrifying critiques of cultural imperialism and a reframing of "They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace." In the context of fallout but just an unfunny joke.
It renders the point of legion characters nothing, it isn't supported textually and it doesnt add anything. It just seems like you dont like the legion and therefore they must be illegitimate. Which Imo is a less scathing critique than if they are legitimate.
This renders his appeals to actual legitimate (or at least legitimate as far as the writers were concerned) philosophy entirely meaningless. The scene where you meet the leaders of the raiding faction behind the most horrifying things you have seen and he starts quoting hegel and genuinely arguing his case becomes a farce and meaningless. If he didn't belive, why would he need to justify it to an outsider?
He's mussolini, he's all the national syndicalist who historically decided to adopt far right ideologies rooted in their former leftist frameworks. Or... he's just doing a prank.