switch from Whatsapp to Element (matrix)? (element.io)

submitted 1 week ago by Pip@feddit.org to c/buyfromeu@feddit.org

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I'm thinking of moving away from US-based messengers.

Signal, telegram etc have the same problematic architectures. Of those kinds of solutions, I like Threema best, but nobody uses them (which is only a problem because of their architecture).

So I wanted to get a solution with a decentralized architecture, pretty much like the fediverse.

From what I can see, the fediverse activityPub with MLS layer project (to enable fediverse end-to-end encrypted messaging) is still in the functional documentation stage.

So, what do you think of Element as a messenger (which uses matrix protocol)?

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[-] SrMono@feddit.org 11 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Hosted matrix for a while. It is resource greedy and the message retention was/is a mess.

Honestly, I don’t see how my folks will ever switch. WhatsApp and Signal are conceptually much easier to grasp and use.

Currently I’m glad, whenever somebody switches to signal (and I choose to fight one battle at a time).

[-] Pip@feddit.org 4 points 1 week ago

I know what you mean. The requirement is that friends and family will use it, too.

How long ago was your experience with matrix?

[-] SrMono@feddit.org 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Self-hosted and bridged: half a year.

I quit that experiment and registered an account at a generic instance. Needless to say: it is only me and some public rooms.

None of my peers engages me there. They really don’t want to waste time with registration, backup keys, and concepts.

[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 1 points 1 week ago

One issue is: As rooms are decentralised, if someone posts illegal content and your server downloads it, that could lead to legal trouble, especially as you'd then also host it.

The encryption often fails, leading to the meme "Message cannot be decrypted".

[-] Attacker94@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

One issue is: As rooms are decentralised, if someone posts illegal content and your server downloads it, that could lead to legal trouble, especially as you'd then also host it.

That should only be an issue for media though shouldn't it, since all plain text can be set up to be e2e.

The encryption often fails, leading to the meme "Message cannot be decrypted".

Is that still the case, I have been using matrix for about a year now and I haven't ever had an issue sending and receiving except for a day which the vector.org servers were down. I hear that hosting a synapse server is a pain in the ass, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

That should only be an issue for media though shouldn't it, since all plain text can be set up to be e2e.

It does not matter whether you encrypt illegal content, things do not magically turn legal once they are encrypted.

Plaintext cannot be set up to be E2EE, that is a contradiction in itself. Rooms can be either unencrypted or encrypted. If they are, messages are encrypted.

I hear that hosting a synapse server is a pain in the ass, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

Indeed, it is. That's why I have replaced mine with Tuwunel, much less effort and way less resource-intensive.

[-] Attacker94@lemmy.world 1 points 1 week ago

It does not matter whether you encrypt illegal content, things do not magically turn legal once they are encrypted.

I wasn't suggesting it was, I was just pointing out that it wouldn't be easily provable that you were in possession of such content.

Plaintext cannot be set up to be E2EE, that is a contradiction in itself. Rooms can be either unencrypted or encrypted. If they are, messages are encrypted.

I feel this is a bit pedantic as I would assume that you understood that I meant text messages, unless you are saying that all forms of messages, including media like images and videos, are encrypted in e2ee rooms, in which case that is information I did not have.

[-] erebion@news.erebion.eu 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I was just pointing out that it wouldn’t be easily provable that you were in possession of such content.

Yeah, but I'd rather not have anything illegal than just making it less obvious. I'd rather stick to the rules.

unless you are saying that all forms of messages, including media like images and videos, are encrypted in e2ee rooms, in which case that is information I did not have.

Yes, media would be encrypted as well. Metadata is not, though. Matrix leads to quite a lot of that, unfortunately, due to the way it works.

There are usually many servers that know name and members of a chat, even though the contents are encrypted.

EDIT: I've been deep into hosting Matrix and XMPP for a long time, I sometimes forget which things aren't obvious from a user's point of view.

[-] Ghoelian@piefed.social 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I'm hosting my matrix server on the cheapest hetznet vps available without issue. Also I've never had any messages disappeare, so I'm not sure what you mean with the message retention.

I do agree it's way too complex for the average person. I mainly use it with bridges for WhatsApp, sinal, discord, etc, with only a few native matrix contacts.