33
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 11 Dec 2025
33 points (97.1% liked)
askchapo
23253 readers
194 users here now
Ask Hexbear is the place to ask and answer ~~thought-provoking~~ questions.
Rules:
-
Posts must ask a question.
-
If the question asked is serious, answer seriously.
-
Questions where you want to learn more about socialism are allowed, but questions in bad faith are not.
-
Try !feedback@hexbear.net if you're having questions about regarding moderation, site policy, the site itself, development, volunteering or the mod team.
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
If you're having trouble justifying your views, you should be trying to investigate the premeses and evidence to challenge and elaborate your own understanding. Starting with a conclusion you like and then asking for reasons to justify it is intellectually impoverished; leave that kind of investigation to the talking heads on the payroll of various countries' state departments.
By doing a proper investigation, you'll have a much better understanding and be able to approach the conversation in a way that's tailored to your audience. Your views may even change, and that's not a bad thing!
(As an aside, in the left-Lemmyverse "Ukraine bad" positions can range everywhere from "The Ukrainian government is corrupt and throwing its citizenry into a meatgrinder" all the way to "Ukraine is a fake country composed of Nazis that should be wholly annexed into Russia". I've seen this whole spectrum over the past few years on Hexbear and Lemmygrad.)
For good places to start with interrogating liberal "pro-Ukraine" support, I have some decent articles I can point you towards:
+2 for practicing good epistemology. It's in bad form to ask for arguments to support a conclusion you already support or find yourself defending; it's better to aggressively try and attack your own preconceived notions and find flaws in things you believe, then you know you can more readily defend what remains because you should be familiar with what one might say to attack it. In the case of Ukraine, a lot of the arguments in support of Ukraine can be thought terminating cliches:
I might be missing some, but I think those are some of the ones you'll hear often. I don't know of any much stronger arguments, though! It frustrates me because sometimes, in a debate about capitalism, imperialism, etc. there will be some more plausible arguments from the right wing side than simple thought terminating cliches. But in this case most of the conversation marches to the beat of simplistic propaganda narratives.