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this post was submitted on 27 Sep 2025
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The right is already using widespread violence on several levels. To say ICE isn't violence is simply wrong, to say the numerous persecutions of people like judges, prosecutors and James Comey because Trump perceive them as opponents, to claim that isn't violence is also simply wrong. Attacks on politicians in their homes even killing family members is also clearly extreme violence. To arrest a judge for upholding the law in her own courtroom, is exactly the kind of violence that will pave the way for fill fledged fascist system in USA. To arrest a school administrator for protecting his pupils against unlawful practices by ICE is the same.
The failure to stop ICE among other things is leading USA directly to fascism. Why should the pain be on one side only?
So to say the left should refrain from even talking about violence at this point is a bit steep IMO.
It's more likely the left is like democrats in general, too little too late, as it is USA is steadily heading for a dictatorship.
Also to talk about resistance as if it means civil war is a slippery slope argument.
I didn't say ICE doesn't use violence
For fucks sake, you said it's wrong to use violence to stop ICE, meaning people should just accept the other side is using violence, but refrain from it themselves.
That's decidedly moronic, and how do you imagine you can defend that position from a moral standpoint?
You wrote:
If you think the left must remain peaceful, while the right is using widespread violence and wildly abusing any official power, there is only one way this ends, and that is with the right winning without a fight.
I don't think fighting ICE is going to get rid of the problem before causing a civil war. And I also think that civil war is still preventable through peaceful means.
Of course it isn't, and again talk about civil war is a slippery slope argument.
The post you originally responded to didn't even mention anything about violence, but only that 14 days until the next big demonstration is too long, and strong worded letters are not enough, and you immediately conflate that to too much violence?
WTF???
Obviously if USA wants to keep their democracy, this cannot at this time be achieved without a demonstration of force.
A demonstration of force does not have to be violent, but it does require people to respond in force, as in many people showing up. And just as in war, you cannot win if you are not willing to fight.
Fascism can't be beat by pacifism.
I don't think that's right. That post ended with:
Which has to be a veiled call for violence. We might all agree about the other parts of that and then in true anti fascist fashion we start fighting about this one.
E: typos
Power of the people, as in massive demonstrations, that can be shown without violence. But it needs to be shown the power is there if needed.
Yeah, that was not at all clear. So perhaps there isn't so much disagreement.
That's how I read it, you are right it's not entirely clear, but I don't think anybody sane wants a civil war.
But the people rising up for a rebellion can be peaceful, almost all the former eastern European communist countries had peaceful rebellions that overthrew communism and gave them democracy.
Yeah, this fight is suddenly very boring 😝
You still need to be ready to fight, or rather a lot of people need to. Otherwise this fight is already lost.
the "peaceful means" are We the People rolling over and allowing the alt-right to continue deploying military and Gestapo agents in our streets and communities.
~ Kevin Roberts, president of the Heritage Foundation, 2024