734
Infighting (jlai.lu)
submitted 5 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

[dude with glasses in a communist t-shirt, arguing] I'm the only leftist here, your opinions are TRASH

[dude holding a theory book on smug, arguing] Read theory you losers, you're all WRONG

[dude in an anarchist hoodie, arguing] Nuh-uh, I'm the only leftist here, you're SHITLIBS

[the three dudes are now caught in a cartoon fight, glasses gone flying, punches everywhere, while a firing squad of nazis are targeting them with rifles]

[a confused nazi asks] Why… why are they still arguing?

https://thebad.website/comic/infighting

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[-] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago

this is terminally online behavior. Marxists I've run into in actual organizing work are generally pretty chill and more interested in the work than trying to tell me I have the wrong opinion.

Anyone complaining about "tankies" when there's actual Nazis around is doing their work for them.

[-] [email protected] 20 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

No. I've seen marxist-leninists, maoists, and anyone in that area of thought arguing the following:

  • LGBTQ+ identities are bourgeois degeneracy
  • Trans people are a capitalist invention to divide workers
  • Nazis have a point when it comes to nationalism
  • Assad and Putin are leftists
  • Anarchism has never been tried successfully (because every time someone tried they got betrayed by MLs and executed by them for wrongthink)
  • Animal Farm is capitalist propaganda
  • Killing millions of people is necessary for a better world
  • States are 100% necessary for the development of socialism
  • China is communist or will be communist by 2050
  • Ukraine is a Nazi state who deserves to be invaded
  • Russia taking children from Ukraine and relocating them is just them being nice and removing them out of the warzone
  • Anarchists are all children who don't know better
  • The socialist state must uphold "traditional values"
  • Stalin exclusively killed Nazis
  • The only valid leftist theory is the one that argues Marxism-Leninism is correct
  • "Socialist" police are a good thing because they don't serve capital, they serve the people

If you think ANY of those arguments are valid for leftism, then I'm sorry, but I don't want you around me.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I have literally never run into anyone in real life who says any of these as any form of communist, other than 'communist' parties full of pensioners or maga communists.

spoiler

  • LGBTQ+ identities are bourgeois degeneracy
  • Trans people are a capitalist invention to divide workers
  • Nazis have a point when it comes to nationalism
  • Assad and Putin are leftists
  • Killing millions of people is necessary for a better world
  • The socialist state must uphold “traditional values”
  • “Socialist” police are a good thing because they don’t serve capital, they serve the people
  • The only valid leftist theory is the one that argues Marxism-Leninism is correct
  • Stalin exclusively killed Nazis

I have run into people saying things like this:

spoiler

  • Anarchism has never been tried successfully

  • Anarchists are all children who don’t know better

and I'll push back on it, but it's not a monolith, Marxists with decent enough social skills to not insult allies do exist

Animal farm is propaganda, by a social democrat with a clear agenda.

Believe it or not, these are almost never relevant to actual organizing work:

spoiler

  • China is communist or will be communist by 2050
  • Ukraine is a Nazi state who deserves to be invaded
  • Russia taking children from Ukraine and relocating them is just them being nice and removing them out of the warzone
  • States are 100% necessary for the development of socialism
[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Real life marxists tend to be okay, I don't mind them. But, online those people literally try to dominate ALL discourse in leftism to the point where every single contact people have with leftists is someone who believes those things unironically.

[-] [email protected] -3 points 5 days ago

No, you're just strawmanning

[-] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago

They never said RL. That is a very specific and self aware cop-out. You know as well as we do, the ml servers are known for this for good reason.

Being fully transparent .world has their shit heads too. As do most other servers. However to the best of my knowledge they tend not to be administrators etc. 🤷‍♂️

[-] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

They never said RL.

My original comment at the start of this thread was:

this is terminally online behavior. Marxists I’ve run into in actual organizing work are generally pretty chill

This is in a thread about getting murdered IRL by fascists while bickering. I think real life is relevant.

I then get the litany of online behaviors that people engage in, including a lot of stuff that has no basis in reality outside of trolls and crypto-fascists.

The shit I get from some people because of what instance I happen to use is literally the thing depicted in the comic though:

I can’t take anything you say in good faith if you willingly use that space.

At some point actually fighting fascism requires realizing that it's a lot easier to work with communists and anarchists despite whatever disagreements you have, because as different ideologically as we may be, that distinction doesn't matter to our enemies.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

First I agree that marxists are generally chill it's the hyphenated ones that typically are not. And because we can agree on that. I think we should be able to agree that they aren't who is being pictured above in the comic.

Perhaps it was misunderstanding, perhaps it was talking past each other. Either way fair enough.

Others get the same treatment. I can count plenty of times where I've been told similar because I post from a .world domain. The difference being, of course correct me if I am wrong. That our administrators don't tend to be as problematic. It isn't 2019 anymore. ML isn't the only server. If you are focused on organization and outreach. Maybe it's worth considering finding a new instance that would would help in fostering that.

As I syndicist I absolutely gave some thought about joining an instance that better reflected my sensibilities. Though some recent events have definitely made me reconsider on that. I honestly think I'm happy an a much more diverse platform. Even if on the fediverse our diversity is pretty homogenic.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

If you are focused on organization and outreach. Maybe it’s worth considering finding a new instance that would would help in fostering that.

I'm not trying to be glib, I don't think any instances are good for that, I use other platforms with more reach for that sort of thing.

I come here because I can see what other anarchists and Marxists are saying about the news and shoot the shit with them. Plus I can access the largest trans instances from here, I don't really have any ambitions beyond that.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago

Fair enough. I can do that as well. Just without all the domain baggage. And if it is something that bothers you. It's something to look at. Something I saw you actually cop to elsewhere on the topic.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

I mean while it is annoying getting called a red fascist out of pure tribal reaction, I'm also pretty stubborn when it comes to peer pressure emilie-shrug

[-] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago

Heh I think that describes most of us on the fediverse and why we are the way we are.

[-] [email protected] -2 points 5 days ago

Yeah, certainly no baggage on .world...

[-] [email protected] -2 points 5 days ago

course correct me if I am wrong. That our administrators don’t tend to be as problematic

You are wrong, one hundred percent wrong. But you already know that the administrators of .world are Zionist liberals, but you don't care because you agree with them.

[-] [email protected] 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

This is literal ruling class propaganda. No Marxist or Marxist-Leninist is against LGBT, thinks Nazis or nationalism has a point, claims Putin is leftist, etc.

Stop trying to stir division, astroturf.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

How about I talk about every time Marxist-Leninists betrayed other leftists and executed them? It's an extensive fucking list.

Also, just look it up. You will find examples of what I said within minutes. But if you wanna be lazy, go ahead.

[-] [email protected] -3 points 4 days ago

You're just an astroturf. You are what's a stop to any temporary left unity, not those who you accuse with ridiculous strawmen.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

I'm not uniting with people who will kill me later. We've done that multiple times. Your ilk always betrays us.

[-] [email protected] -1 points 3 days ago

Saying this while shaking hand with Hitler, voting for the Nazi's enabling act.

"Heh I've really shown those socialists this time."

[-] [email protected] -2 points 4 days ago

Sounds like you're the one betraying us

[-] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago

Lol. Please present a single example of someone actually holding these views. This is the most obviously nonsense strawman in history, but everyone here will upvote it anyway because it lets them punch left.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 4 days ago

One of the Lemmy Devs was saying that being transgender was promoted by the bourgeois

https://lemmy.ca/post/26211900

[-] [email protected] 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Now do the rest

[-] [email protected] -1 points 5 days ago

Is possible, just maybe, that you've been talking to trolls posing as communists, rather than actual communists? Because that's what it sounds like.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago

Are you saying nutomic is a troll?

Most communist don't identify as that because of the way leninist and Maoist have soiled it.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I don't want to put you out, but if you've got actual links to him saying dodgy stuff, then please could you show me?

I'm about ten minutes into reading through his Reddit comments and he's not even said anything political. One of the most recent comments was him replying to an accusation of creating the federated wiki alternative for right-wing purposes, which is confusing me even more.

He's specifically telling people which instances they can join that block lemmygrad.

He doesn't seem that extreme. If you can provide something, it'd really be appreciated, because from looking at his posts so far, he seems a nice enough guy.

Edit - never mind, I think I've found what you're referring to. I'll look through them properly in a little bit.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago

I'm not so focused to keep lists Etc myself. However if you are interested in learning a bit more about it all. There are actually a few communities dedicated to it. Don't just take anything there as gospel though. Critical thinking is always good to employ. And even then it might just come down to who you decide you want to believe. However massive amounts of hypocritical behavior to me would indicate less trustworthiness.

Meanwhileongrad has a lot of it. Just bear in mind. Where people will stand is often more about what they do than even what they say.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

Appreciate the info! Thank you.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

Anytime. And as to your edit on the previous message always. Never just assume things to be true.

[-] [email protected] -4 points 5 days ago

So no, he didn't say that, you're just lying

[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

Those people were not being ironic, no. I think it's just a phenomenon that is excessively more common amongst internet MLs. Real life MLs are okay for the most part. Internet MLs are pretty much a cult that will try to take over ANY leftist community or be the dominant form of leftist discourse through any means necessary and will excessively push propaganda from literal fascists because they happen to be against liberals.

All I'm saying is that an embarrassing amount of leftists are terminally online and unable to do anything to try to push leftism other than argue with liberals online and spout hate towards those they see as "betraying" leftism. Those people don't actually do any organization IRL, which to me is a blessing... but sometimes that doesn't work. Brazil, and by extension all of South America, has a very bad problem with MLs dominating online AND IRL discourse, making it hard for other forms of leftism to be considered or even debated in good faith.

[-] [email protected] -5 points 5 days ago

"those people" aren't real, you just made them up so you can punch left

[-] [email protected] 9 points 5 days ago

You're from .ml, your opinion on tankies is coming from inside the house.

Frankly history has shown what happens to leftists who side with tankies. I for one will never be making that mistake again.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 5 days ago

You’re from .ml

I'm an anarchist, I have done anarchist organizing for years.

[-] [email protected] 7 points 5 days ago

I'm not going to argue on the validity of that, but you're using .ml; Where the dev-admins themselves deny genocide and spout transphobic hate.

I can't take anything you say in good faith if you willingly use that space.

[-] [email protected] 5 points 5 days ago

I'm trans and not a fan of what nutomic has said either, but have had no issues with any of the other admins. I certainly haven't seen those comments reflect in how they moderate, I even got made a mod here because I was calling out and reporting transphobia.

If he says anything like that in a comm I control I'll be banning him myself though.

[-] [email protected] -2 points 5 days ago

Lol, in a post condemning leftist infighting, people are up voting people attacking other leftists for being from the wrong instance

[-] [email protected] 2 points 5 days ago

No, we are attacking people for hanging out in an ~~Nazi~~ authie genocide denying transphobe bars.

I’m more interested in top vs bottom than left vs right.

[-] [email protected] -2 points 5 days ago

I’m more interested in top vs bottom

Yeah man, .ml is definitely the ruling class. For sure.

this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2025
734 points (94.3% liked)

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