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submitted 5 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[-] [email protected] 76 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I don't really know why I bothered to write this, but I'll post it anyway:

As usual, leftists have championed a doomed cause

What the fuck do you champion with your platform, Nat? Congratulations on being a pioneering voice in letting us know that 4channers are bad, congrats on your incredible victory that has long stopped reaching anyone who didn't already understand that, now what about the imperialism that characterizes the global order? Oh, right, opposing it is infeasible because Dems won't vote for it.

It's crazy how she says that anti-Zionism is necessarily a losing battle with a "shrunken" coalition relative to the "coalition" that includes lib zios, but then a few lines later acknowledges that "Anti-Zionist" as a label is "now-popular," but only to talk about Nazis using the title. So it's hopelessly unpopular when it comes to doing good things but powerfully mainstream for doing bad things, with no causal differentiation.

God, I already hate her, but the fact that she would just come out and attack anti-zionism overall is somewhat more reactionary than I expected, albeit a more honest version of what I assumed her opinion would be.

[In reference to documentation of the genocide and these images upsetting people] Antisemitism and Anti-Zionism are conceptually not the same, and conflating them is dangerous. But . . .

She did the meme. Continued:

But in practice, the way Israel is perceived does seep out into attitudes toward Jews in general. I don't think Jews who feel isolated and wary in the current atmosphere are simply hysterical or hallucinating.

Yes, there's communal trauma and hypervigilance. Yes, there's disingenuous rightwing ghouls dismissing and censoring all criticism of Israel on the pretext of "fighting antisemitism." But there's also a valid fear of historical antisemitic patterns recurring, and that fear gives power to the rightwing Zionist claim that only Israel can keep Jews safe.

Does this mean Israel cannot be criticized and sanctioned? Absolutely not.

But it's something I don't want to risk contributing to if not outweighed by tangible benefits. So, I approached the issue cautiously.

For the first time in years, Nat demonstrates concerns about tangible benefits and the risks of playing into reactionary tropes, something that has never occurred to her when she bashes communists (both anarchists and MLs, especially Mao for some reason).

I can absolutely see how this looks Reasonable and like she's being The Adult in the Room if you're a liberal, and my criticism of this is something it's pretty easy to handwave if you are motivated by liking her output and being overly charitable, but one of the more awful parts about this, and the reason I transcribed that segment in full, is that she is completely vague about "rightwing ghouls" and does not make clear at all in this statement how Israel itself and its entire fucking edifice is based on the conflation that she's talking about, that she's talking about the end result of the primary defensive strategy of hasbarists. She can't say this, because then her statement would amount to "Israel is using Jews as human shields, so I can't attack Israel because then I'd be endangering the human shields. Never mind that millions of people coming to harm was already the status quo and I could try to help interfere, Israel's hostage-taking has immobilized me, even though my hypothetical long-winded video essay would never have a message that could be conflated with Nazi-style antisemitism regardless." She can't say this because she would sound completely ridiculous. (I said "Nazi-style" because I think she could pretty easily produce some zionist-style antisemitism and gets close to doing it even here with the nebulous connection between "Israel" and "Jews in general" she draws in the first part of the last quote).

Edit: Also, "historical antisemitic patterns reoccuring" isn't going to come from the crowd of Leftists in keffiyehs! They aren't the ones who will go hunt down all the Jews for betraying Jesus or preventing their country's glorious victory in the Great War. The Zionist crowd is the one who would produce such action, though in practice in a place like America we are far from there structurally (not that stochastic attacks are acceptable, but those were already going on and the evidence presented of them increasing in number is muddled by zio misreporting, and very little compared to both systemic and stochastic Islamophobic attacks, something she never even hints at existing).

Zero Palestinian lives were saved. Not one fewer bomb or bullet was fired by the IDF.

Then why "quietly" donate to charities, Nat? Zero people were saved? Did all the fundraising, all the relocated refugees, not accomplish anything at all? Or are you just so obsessed with depicting people to your left as useless that you'd cynically misrepresent an ongoing genocide to score points? Never mind the sabotage and pressure campaigns that did actually concretely stop shipments to Israel, albeit not on the totalizing scale we would hope for.

It may have slightly contributed to the reelection of Trump, guaranteeing that the US will put not diplomatic pressure on Netanyahu for at least four years,

First of all, if the war factored into the election, it was the fault of the Democrats for being zionists, not the fault of voters being less enthusiastic for a zionist. Do you not understand how voting is even theoretically supposed to work? This is a real "the Democrats can only be failed" argument.

Oh yeah, and it was an open secret for over a year now that the Biden admin was putting no pressure on Bibi, and somewhat recently became fully a non-secret because Israeli politicians have been bragging about it! I sure wonder there's some other motivation here that has resulted in you putting forth these blatant falsehoods to, and it can't be stressed enough, smear the opposition to a genocide!

Trump is also, incidentally, a menace to me and basically everyone I care about. A perfectly enlightened being would feel no bitterness about this, but I do.

This could be the entire post. Just these two sentences, rephrased slightly for context.

What about the people who are menaced by the Dems as well? Oh, sorry, some voteblues showed me a trolley problem meme and I realized that solidarity isn't the best way to optimize for my well-being on the timescale of one election cycle, so forget about those other people.

None of this is the fault of the Palestinians, of course, who are overwhelmingly the victims here.

Bless your heart. We all know that you're posting this as a bitter tirade against the anglosphere left, you don't need to say it via negativa too.

I hope that someday American policy will shift in their favor, and I will continue to support that cause.

I hope this requires no comment for how pathetic and disingenuous this statement is.

I see the situation as bleak, intractable, extremely divisive . . .

Die in a ditch, Natalie.

[-] [email protected] 49 points 5 days ago

I really fucking hate that "encouraging antisemitism" take.

I have personally, literally punched Nazis and the only other people I know of who have also done this have been communists and anarchists. I have stood proudly beside Jewish comrades for a thousand causes including stopping the genocide.

What liberals like her truly hate is that we take their vaunted moral universalism seriously, while they see constant hypocritical "pragmatic" reasons for cowardly betraying everything every committed liberal from Robespierre to John Stuart Mill stood for.

Because doing anything else would be hard. They might lose. That wouldn't be entertaining. It wouldn't be good narrative framing.

It shows in how we love the great liberal heroes while she makes videos about how they were like super mean to girl boss princess who was irl trying to invent the Black Hundreds a century ahead of schedule.

I don't hate Natalie. I quite like her, we have very similar interests. But I have absolute contempt for her as an agent.

[-] [email protected] 35 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago)

I have personally, literally punched Nazis

rat-salute-2 thank you for your service maam

[-] [email protected] 21 points 5 days ago

Not actually something I'm very proud of. I don't like violence, it ruins the cuticles.

But it had to be done.

[-] [email protected] 55 points 5 days ago

Yup, classic liberal where they say they condemn genocide but their main point is to belittle leftists who have actual moral consistency. If you ever need to show a prime example of pearl clutching it's this post.

this post was submitted on 10 Jul 2025
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El Chisme

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