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submitted 2 days ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[-] [email protected] 89 points 2 days ago

I don't know about the "no real life effects". As a teenager, I was dangerously close to falling down a conspiracy theorist rabbit hole, back then with 9/11-"truthers". It was online arguments I witnessed, where their arguments got dismantled by people knowing what they are talking about, that got me out of there before I got in too deep.

Similarily, loneliness once got me adjacent to the proto-"manosphere" before it was a thing as it is today. But arguing with them about how they are wrong about womens' roles historically, claiming they were "privileged" in ways they objectively weren't turned me off of their bullshit really quickly.

I know arguing online has become more exhausting ever since, but I think there might be a bit of an overly dismissive reaction present with a lot of people on the internet. Developing your own ideas against opposition is still something worthwhile in many cases. And online, there's usually at least some kind of audience, that gets influenced by discussions - for better or worse.

That being said, I may be overthinking things. Because any discussion, where your goal is "totally destroying the opponent" is usually in the category of least worthwhile discussions to have.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago

This is how I think of it. I'm not arguing on the Internet to change the person's mind. I'm arguing to make sure anyone reading the thread in the future doesn't come away with the impression that the other person's argument is flawless.

I'm happy to end an argument by just repeating the facts that the other person is getting wrong. I know their mind isn't getting changed but I hope that anyone that comes along later will be able to read the thread and clearly understand the logical disconnect the other person's argument has.

Especially arguing against someone in certain subcultures like the manosphere, yeesh. Their arguments are so subjective and centered around feelings that often all you can do is point that out and hope someone who comes along later sees that their arguments really make no sense.

[-] [email protected] 4 points 1 day ago

Yep, big problem on the internet is the influx of children posting/commenting everywhere since everyone has devices and internet access while kids third places online no longer exist. Like club penguin. Instead they share the same social media we do which is wild, but now 1000s of kids that stay online all say will have their objectively wrong opinions overwhelm anyone with sense.

[-] [email protected] 2 points 1 day ago

I was a kid with the internet, but there was internet etiquette, rules everywhere, like I genuinely was able to avoid spoilers everywhere. Social media was kind of a thing but not used the way it is now, ppl actually shared their raw thoughts for better or worse lol. If you didn't know what you were talking about youd get shit on by ppl with sources, now you get a ton of ppl just like you who dont know what they're talking about agreeing and validating you

[-] [email protected] 7 points 2 days ago

good internet argument there.

[-] [email protected] 10 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

The key is to know why you're communicating and under what implicit rules and beliefs. Some people want to learn something, to spread a message, to impart info, to vent, to feel important, to have fun, to perform for an audience, to feel understood...your job first of all is to figure out what your interlocutor's aim is and if it is different from yours, to bear that in mind before get so invested that you can't let it go.

[-] [email protected] 12 points 2 days ago

Not overthinking. Just covering the whole topic! Those are some good points/examples.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

Interesting! Do you think you would have gotten out with filter bubbles and Echo Chambers as they are these days?

[-] [email protected] 5 points 1 day ago

Good question. Genuinely impossible for me to know, actually. On the one hand, things don't feel like they had been radically different back then, I was stuck in a bubble full of people sharing "Zeitgeist" (that shitty "documentary") and circlejerking each other about how they are wiser and more intelligent for months - in b4 jokes about Lemmy not being any different. My father, an old Stalinist made cynical and paranoid by the dissolution of the Soviet Union, of course also immediately supported it on the principle of "anything anti US must be true and righteous!" So I had my work laid out for me, there.

But some stuff trickled through, like in, wow does that date things, Google Video comments which I remember seeing vividly. Or the odd visitor to a forum getting off an argument before being banned as a "shill". Or, interestingly enough, I also got there because the circle-jerky nature of those spaces had them talk about people working for the CIA or some shit, to argue with them - which got me curious about who those people were, and I found out, they were presenting much more reasonable arguments.

I am in general sceptical of explaining everything with "the nature of the internet" and "filter bubbles". While that undoubtedly has clear and real effects, I still subscribe to those effects panning out in the way we witness, because of how more broadly, capitalism has decayed further and further into crisis mode ever since, and more clearly divorced from its marriage with parliamentarian, liberal democracy even in western nations, and the ownership of media, both social and traditional, has consolidated more and more into the hands of a few people, in addition to the profit incentive shaping the way information is packaged and communicated. Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, the genocide in Rwanda, the mass killing of communists in Indonesia, none of those needed the internet to happen - and I find it suspicious how we look for the fault for everything now in "common people just being monsters when left to their own devices in an unregulated space", when that space is heavily regulated both abstractly by the profit motive and addictive engagement, and even special interests of individual capitalists nowadays.

Sry, went a bit on a rant there, not implying that was what you were arguing, that's more me arguing against something just brought up in general quite often nowadays, which I think focuses in on one part of reality (again: it has an effect, not disputing that), in order to explain away other parts of the dynamic at play.

[-] [email protected] 3 points 2 days ago

I think arguing in the forums of my favorite band in high school (about topics completely unrelated to music) have made my written communication as an adult pretty good

this post was submitted on 31 May 2025
473 points (93.9% liked)

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