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It should.
Rules and laws come from our values. If a company isn't moral or ethical, retaliation and consequences are exactly what needs to happen. And we should create new rules and laws to make sure they are forced out.
You do not normalize Nazis.
By publicly stating that this is revenge, they've opened themselves to all different kinds of legal pushback.
If Shitler isn't angry and thinking of suing you for what you did to him, you're openly doing things wrong. They precisely should state that it's revenge so that he knows he can never prevail no matter if he wins in court. Like, the door must be closed for all time. It must be a clearly sent message that it is a personal sanction.
Revenge only plays their game, further devalues the rule of law and fair markets.
Personally I like the compromise that any manufacturer without dealerships shouldn’t require them. Dealerships are some of the scammiest businesses we have but it’s unfair to allow a manufacturer to compete with a dealer when that manufacturer controls the market. But if there are no dealers why should one be required? Good riddance: they’re not a social good
“The Trump administration has revoked the right to do business from Fairphone, Costco, etc. due to their spreading of dangerous WOKE ideology.”
Again I want this to happen but the justification as it stands is without precedent and is flimsy as hell
Reverse cause and effect. Wake up. They are already dismantling DEI and citizenship and due process and the courts and on and on. Now it's your move in response.
They have gotten this far precisely because of the lack of spine in their opponents. They are absolutely leveraging tolerance and a rules based ordered retreat from people who don't believe what they believe.
If you aren't a bigot, racist or Nazi, they expect passivism, banging on powerless law books and some nasty bumper stickers as a response.
There is no "spine" in subsidizing car dealers. It's just another handout to MAGA.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/05/rich-republicans-party-car-dealers-2024-desantis.html
Dude there are so many better ways to attack Musk than risking terrible optics/precedent to close five Tesla dealerships.
But why do you want to attack Musk though?
Are you mad because he cheats on his taxes or his wives? We should probably broadcast that our only problem is with his taxes. That would be a better way, right? Like, dont call him out morally, tolerate that and just look for a legal case?
Do you see the problem?
Because he’s a bigoted piece of shit dismantling our government and stealing info on US citizens to enrich himself as he needlessly persecutes marginalized groups with his rhetoric and actions.
Flimsy attempts to shut down a few dealerships that will have little to no impact on his life does nothing to solve the above.
So how come you think it wouldn't be a very good piece of public policy to be crystal clear and honest about that?
Like why can't the state say: "we are not subsidizing this business with taxpayer money any more, because of their ethics"?
You can make a legal case against Tesla for accounting or SEC violations or tax fraud...but that's not taking a moral stand.
Because that is not a legally protected reason like religious beliefs. He hasn't been convicted of a crime, he hasn't taken an explicitly anti-religious stance, etc.
Again, they should say "due to the growing concern of Tesla's alleged fraudulent behavior with EV tax incentives/government subsidies both domestically and abroad, we are reassessing the status of currently operating Tesla dealerships" (or something to that effect). That is related to Tesla. It's way more legitimate than a vague gesture to "he's a piece of shit." You can't refuse to let people do business because they're bigoted assholes. That's the sad reality.
You and I completely agree, it seems.
Love it when it happens! Been getting harassed by hexbear/lemmygrad fuckwits lately
I think you’re trapped by the Paradox of tolerance.
I know what that is and it’s not relevant. I’m not preaching tolerance. I’m talking strategy. I even provided what i believe to be a way better strategy using the same channels to get the same result.
How am I being tolerant of muskrat?
I disagree and think that it is. By explicitly stating that they are targeting Tesla within New York because of Elon Musk and his connection to the company there is a statement being made that they will no longer tolerate that behavior and the attempts to harm the country and the democracy by Elon Musk and that they will defend against his intolerance with whatever means they can.
When you've tried to use reason, when you've tried to work within the systems that are in place to deal with a bully and those systems have failed you and the bully is refusing to listen to reason then you reach a point where you just have to punch them in the nose.
You’re conflating ethics and legal issues. Ethically I say do whatever he’s got it coming. Legally it won’t stick if it’s flimsy. I want the same result, I disagree with the efficacy of the method and fear retaliation in kind. Weed legalization at the state level ignoring federal law created all kind of gaps for conservatives to get their shit through at the state level in flagrant defiance of federal law. We’ve seen this time and time again.
That is not tolerance of Musk and insisting I am tolerant of him won’t make it true. I am not.
No, I'm not. The article is about state lawmakers. Senators. The same people who gave Tesla a special exemption to sell directly to consumers rather than going through third party dealerships. If the bill passes and the Governor signs it then it becomes law. They gave Tesla a waiver, they can take it away.
I at no point insisted you were tolerant of Musk and if that was your takeaway then I'd suggest re-reading my comment or work on your reading comprehension. I stated that you seem to be stuck in the paradox of tolerance, it seems like you expect the state of New York to meet Musk, and more specifically Tesla, with tolerance to their intolerance.
Sorry but this just isn’t productive anymore, agree to disagree. Have a good one man
Capitulating to fascists usually isn’t productive.
I really don’t understand how you keep ignoring my desire to see the same exact result they’re going for here. It’s willful at this point. I can’t see any other explanation. Too invested in your mental image of me.
We could tolerate everything except intolerance itself.
Yes, that's what the paradox of intolerance is all about.
Take a look in the mirror - that's literally what you're doing here whether you realize it or not; you're advocating for their methods of arbitrary punishment but giving it a pass because it's your side doing it.
As OC stated, "The shops haven’t done anything to warrant revoking their licenses and rat’s [Musk's] activities are totally unrelated."
Also, like OC said, I agree with the sentiment but not with the method being used here.
Yes, but see, I disagree. Musk's activities are related. Sorry, but that's a dumb opinion, I just can't even see how anyone can believe that.
But trying to slide that in as an assumed proposition is very important to your argument, because otherwise you are allowing an open Nazi to run a large business unchecked.
I defend Musk's God given right to be a Nazi, but I don't think there shouldn't be a consequence for it. A civilization is allowed to respond to this information.
No, these two things are not morally equivalent. This is well studied, start here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
Musk has done so many illegal and treasonous actions that we should be going after. Convict him, convict his minions, convict his pet judges and politicians, convict him again, make mango Mussolini go on record as pardoning him, over and over.
There is no reason to also violate the rule of law to go after him out of spite, no reason to abuse law for personal revenge
He had 20+ open federal level investigations at the time of the national elections, and basically I believe his entry into national politics was most likely motivated as an attempt to circumvent the consequences. Getting embedded into government was his "get out of jail" card.
It's left to the individual states to push him out now. Just as a practical matter, the federal level is too corrupt to hold his companies to account.
The paradox of tolerance doesn't apply here, and you're presenting it out of context. No one is saying we should tolerate Musk or his actions.
Yes, it is. We agree there. Where we disagree is how society responds. Refuse to do new business? Refuse to renew contracts/agreements? Sure. That's fine. No argument from me, and I do the same thing. Hell, I still won't fill up from BP because of how they tried to shirk responsibility for lubricating the Gulf of Mexico almost 20 years ago. That is to say I'm no stranger to "voting with my wallet" or "punishing" companies by refusing to do business with them.
But to arbitrarily revoke agreements with local businesses or legislate against one particular individual when their actions are not directly related to the legislation being drafted is not how a healthy society should handle things. "But we're clearly not a healthy society" is the response I always get when pointing out hypocritical takes. Well, society's not going to get any better if both sides are down in the mud.
What you're basically saying with your argument is "A little fascism is okay when it's my side doing it" and I say that is not okay.
You are DEEPLY confused.
Fascism is literally the system of government where businesses and the state merge. So Tesla has received over $20B in direct government subsidies and the CEO is part of the federal government.
There is no "free marketplace", not any more.
Voting with your wallet, like fascism is literally that. Literally. This is the mechanism.
This is all going to have to change to get out of this deal. People seem to actually not even know what fascism even looks like.
Just wow. You are parroting the exact ideology. This is the actual mechanism they use.
Right now the state of NY is trying to revoke the special deal they gave Tesla's dealers to extricate themselves (the governnent) from propping up his scam business. The state subsidizes his operation and they are merely trying to end that. That's how it looks when you stop fascists -- you cut ties between the businesses and the government.
There is nothing moral or ethical about car dependency. This is not retaliation or consequences or evena new law. It's the return of a subsidy for other car dealers. These dealers are complete garbage. Just as bad as Elon. Fuck cars.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/05/rich-republicans-party-car-dealers-2024-desantis.html