this post was submitted on 07 Apr 2025
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A microblog post by @kareem_carr saying "as soon as i saw they were using asterisks for multiplication symbols, i knew we were in trouble", with an image from the "Office of the United States Trade Representative (Executive Office of the President)" showing the mathematical formula $\Delta \tau_i = \frac{x_i - m_i}{\varepsilon * \varphi * m_i}$. The formula show asterisks (*) instead of multiplication signs (×).

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[–] [email protected] 41 points 3 weeks ago (7 children)

I don't get the significance. How should the formula be represented?

[–] [email protected] 132 points 3 weeks ago (5 children)

Most mathematicians, engineers, and scientists don’t use the asterisk symbol for multiplication. Most don’t write any symbol as it’s implicit. If they do use a symbol they would use a dot or x symbol (though never an actual x). In mathematics, the asterisk is mostly only used to represent convolutions.

Most common:

abc

Less common:

abc

a × b × c

Never:

a * b * c

While to most people this doesn’t really matter (and should feel free using * for multiplication). It shows someone with minimal formal experience in mathematics using this formula

[–] [email protected] 61 points 3 weeks ago

Yeah, asterisk to indicate multiplication is much, much more common amongst coders.

... And script kiddie DOGE interns.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 3 weeks ago

When I went to college the dot was used for the dot product (scalar product) of two vectors while the cross was used for the cross product (vector product) of two vectors.

Since in this case numbers (read: one-dimensional vectors) are multiplied, the dot product is used, which should be denoted by a dot.

(But really, if I were to write a formula in Latex I would just use the * symbol, too.)

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

What if it's a convolution though 🤔

[–] [email protected] 8 points 3 weeks ago

I would love to explain, but it's pretty convoluted

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

I think this is true ONLY in formal writing, which this document clearly intends to be despite it's complete inanity. Asterisks are used in computer code for multiplication and shorthand messages/emails all the time. Not many scientists/engineers/mathematicians out there that can't write at least an excel formula

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I don't know, to me a * b * c is basically just the exact same as abc but just easier to type on a computer. If you were writing it down on paper or a black board they would probably use dots. Coding often uses * because who wants to type in those dots would be a pain in the ass and the * basically looks the closest to a dot.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 weeks ago

But they weren't just "typing it on a computer", they were typesetting it in latex, and trying to make it look grandiose. But they just showed to everyone in the know that they don't know what they're doing.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

The only times anyone would use the asterisk as multiplication symbol are

  • they are doing some fancy math and it's not the same kind of number multiplication we're familiar with
  • they are on a computer, the keyboard does not have a (×) key, and they don't know how to typeset it (\times in LaTex), so they just use the asterisk instead

The US government falls in the second category.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

there is a third case:

  • they are using a programming language
[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 weeks ago

Or me, doing math for school and being too lazy to type /cdot every time

[–] [email protected] 25 points 3 weeks ago

Basically what other people in the comments are saying, but here is a video Matt Parker explaining it: https://youtu.be/j04IAbWCszg?t=461

[–] [email protected] 9 points 3 weeks ago (2 children)

Just guessing but real mathematicians would know how to properly build the formula. I guess in higher maths we use the 'x' rather than '*'.

Not a big deal but may show that the people doing it have no idea what they are doing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

what baffles me is they managed to get all those other symbols but not the multiplication? So weird. Kinda makes me think they used ai to generate this and the ai just had them all next to eachother so the human added asterisks manually for some reason.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago

Typically you'd use either nothing (just put the symbols next to each other) or in cases where that would be unclear, you'd use the centered dot ⋅

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

Most of the time in math, you just put the symbols you want to multiply without anything between them, the multiplication is implicit, or if you really want to make it explicit, you put a dot or a cross. The only time you would use an * is when programming.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

There really isn't any. It's just a huge nitpick. * is commonly used for multiplication, especially in online contexts in order to avoid confusing multiplication with the letter x when wider symbols aren't available.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

no one who would have any experience in the field would write it like that.

it's just a sign that the people who did it have no idea what they are doing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 weeks ago

it's just a sign that the people who did it have no idea what they are doing.

We're in no shortage of those signs