Political Memes

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[–] Spiralvortexisalie@lemmy.world 11 points 2 years ago (2 children)

Obama was literally known as deporter-in-chief and he deported more in his in either of his terms than Trump did in his four years Source. But be careful some smart ass is probably gonna start screaming you can’t say both sides, and you’re a foreign asset trying to depress the vote because they can’t be bothered to read.

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[–] Kurokujo@lemm.ee 10 points 2 years ago (1 child)

From my perspective it was less about the numbers and more about how vocal Trump was about his intentions. Add to that the family separation policy and the STILL MISSING children when he's a known associate of Epstien there was plenty to be upset about.

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[–] Spiralvortexisalie@lemmy.world 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

So you claim that Trump is objectively worse because he was vocal rather than Obama doing it on a muted basis? Despite Obama doing substantially higher numbers? That is definitely some take on these set of facts.

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[–] Kurokujo@lemm.ee 7 points 2 years ago (1 child)

No, I'm saying just looking at the numbers doesn't tell the whole story and intentions also play a large role. Trump wanted to do more than he did but was hindered in many ways. He still did untold damage to our immigration systems and irreparably damaged hundreds of families. It's really difficult to explain a concept as vast as this without essentially writing a book, and that isn't my strong suit.

I'm perfectly okay with Obama also being a bad guy here, but he didn't publicly dehumanize immigrants and their families. He also didn't advocate for removing legal residents based solely on their demographic information.

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[–] Spiralvortexisalie@lemmy.world -3 points 2 years ago (1 child)

I hate to use this term but you are literally arguing against facts with only feelings; feelings based on comments that arguably amount to mere puffery. My argument is that there is no good guys here, but it appears you are stuck on the point that Trump was worse for undocumented individuals because of feelings, rather than an actual objective measure like numbers.

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[–] Kurokujo@lemm.ee 3 points 2 years ago

I can understand why you would think that and I agree that I'm not providing much factual information to work with. I'm not really trying to win an argument here. I was attempting to suggest that relying purely on one data set without considering the wider political and social context is a poor way to form an opinion.

I have a hard time clearly communicating my thoughts and tone via text, but please believe that I mean no disrespect. That being said, bringing up Obama's numbers in a discussion about Trump is quite literally excusing Trump's attempted atrocities because someone else was "worse" in your chosen metric. My position is that numbers don't always tell the whole story.

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[–] Hacksaw@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 years ago (1 child)

Wow, I have no clue how you thought this fact was enough to argue against "Trump is objectively worse than Obama".

Trump is by far, and I mean by an unreal margin, the WORST human being to ever hold the seat of President of the United States of America. There is no debate that Trump is objectively the worst.

Now sure some people did some things more than others. That's true for everything. Obama deporting illegal immigrants is nothing like the racism and hatred towards racialized Americans has stoked on the last 8 years. An illegal immigrant KNOWS their number could be up at any time, it's not a hateful act to legally deport them. But now, EVERY minority in the US, and all women, know their number might get called at any time, and that's a fear that no lawful citizen deserves.

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[–] Spiralvortexisalie@lemmy.world -2 points 2 years ago

You expanded the scope of the discussion (that you weren’t involved in at that) just to get yourself upset.

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[–] affiliate@lemmy.world 3 points 2 years ago

thanks for sharing that. i was not aware of it. it’s particularly brutal that the link is fact checking ron desantis of all people, but i guess it’s not impossible for a republican to say something true on occasion (even if by accident).

i thought this quote from the link was particularly damning:

But did Trump deport fewer people than Obama? There are different deportation metrics, and Obama surpassed Trump’s numbers in each one.