this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2024

1082 points (92.5% liked)

Political Memes

5506 readers

2587 users here now

Welcome to politcal memes!

These are our rules:

Be civil

Jokes are okay, but don’t intentionally harass or disturb any member of our community. Sexism, racism and bigotry are not allowed. Good faith argumentation only. No posts discouraging people to vote or shaming people for voting.

No misinformation

Don’t post any intentional misinformation. When asked by mods, provide sources for any claims you make.

Posts should be memes

Random pictures do not qualify as memes. Relevance to politics is required.

No bots, spam or self-promotion

Follow instance rules, ask for your bot to be allowed on this community.

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

1082

We did it, guys! (lemmy.world)

submitted 2 weeks ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

410 comments fedilink hide all child comments

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

You have every right to be angry, but your anger is pointed at the wrong people. Just like the elite divide the masses with bullshit culture wars, the Democratic party elite want you to blame your fellow voters rather than their unpopular platform and abysmal campaign.

If you can vote, you're a fucking adult. stop acting like a fucking god damned spoiled child.

I've seen this attitude repeated ad nauseum these last few weeks, from people discussing Harris with conflicted undecided voters. And your attitude and aggression is exactly what all of them received, and yet you all wonder why people may have stayed home?

People were vocal about their complaints regarding the Democrat's platform, and they were ignored. If democracy is so important, why the fuck couldn't the Democratic party adopt more progressive policies?!

Like, apparently it's completely reasonable to expect people to do what you say with no promise of even addressing their concerns, nevermind actually addressing, but it's completely unreasonable to just choose not to participate in the system?

You're not entitled to someone's vote, regardless of the circumstances. Stop blaming your fellow countrymen and women for not feeling represented, and start screaming at the party who fucking refused to represent them.

Stop blaming your fellow Americans for the Democrats running a platform so unpopular, 14 million Democrats that voted in 2020 chose to stay home.

Stop blaming your fellow Americans for the DNC hiding Biden's mental acuity issues for well over a year, humiliating himself (and our country) on stage at his debate before hastily cramming a candidate the party didn't have a say in, and running her on policies that their constituents were vocally against.

As a trans woman, you're damn right I'm fucking terrified, and I'm fucking angry.

But my anger is at the Democratic party, who decided that spending decades appeasing the Republicans and giving the American people nothing that they've been promised, who knew the consequences of this election and decided a 2016 rerun was the only viable option, who paraded Republican after Republican across the DNC stage while snubbing Palestinian Democrats from speaking, and then sending Bill Clinton to lecture the electorate about why Israel has the right to genocide Palestine.

The Democratic party had fascism at the gates, and passed all responsibility onto their voting base instead of checks notes listened to their fucking constituents.

So don't get angry at your disillusioned and apathetic neighbor, they're a symptom of the system being unrepresentative of the people for so many years.

Direct your anger at the DNC, demand they start listening to their base, demand that they start trying to garner non-voters with popular policies instead of moving further right to appeal to moderate Republicans.

Or better yet, send them letters regularly, like I plan to do, reminding them that all of the awfulness the American people are living through is a direct result of their entitlement and hubris. Maybe throw in their that they could probably get elected if they actually listened to the American people and ran on policy that reflected what they want.

But that's probably too radical, let's just keep blaming the electorate for wanting to participate in a system that represent them, not one that runs on "Please, we promise, last time we're delaying fascism/the other guy, for realz for realz this time, we'll totally enact all the laws, just give us more money you don't have and give us four more years." But, I'm clearly not as educated and smart as the people running the DNC, I mean, I haven't lost 4 out of the last 7 elections trying to run the same playbook everytime,

They just have to run a candidate people want to vote for, not a candidate people have to vote for. But they won't, because the DNC seems to think they know what people need better than they do. And their voting results this year clearly show that...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

A reasonable person votes against the enemy after a certian point, even if that means electing a fucking banana. Why did you need to convinced to vote against Trump? Why wasnt that a given? One of you answer us that please

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

A reasonable person understands running the same strategy over and over and expecting different results is literally the definition of insanity.

But it's perfectly ok for the DNC to trot out nothing but the status quo for their voters? After over a decade, they can't promise anything beyond "not fascism" to their voters and the rest of the population?

And I already answered you: Harris needed to convince voters to vot for her, or against Trump. That's a politicians job during a campaign, and she failed miserably.

So now explain to me why the average voter has to keep swallowing a shit sandwich, but the political party that keeps failing using the same failed strategy, why don't they have to change? Why is it so unreasonable for them to adopt more popular, progressive policies that voters actually want?

I'll wait, you can go ahead and explain that.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

People weren’t happy so the DNC booted Biden and put in Harris who is a strong candidate given the situation.

Still the fickle left wasn’t happy and over ten million voters who voted Biden before wouldn’t turn out for her.

I wouldn’t blame the democrats for going harder right now to both eat away at the republican’s support and target the people who actually turn out to vote.

Trump got less votes in 2024 than 2020.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

How much did voter purges and other voter-suppression measures contribute to the lower turnout?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 weeks ago

Do you think it accounted for the 14 million Dem voters who voted in 2020 but stayed home in 2024?

I doubt it.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

your response is tone-deaf and meaningless.

this election was an armed robbery and 20 million witnesses just watched it happen because they wanted to "teach the victim a lesson." how fucked up is that?

I blame the DNC, I blame them for dragging us to this point.

I blame the RNC, I blame them for pushing us to this point.

But most of all, I blame Americans that idly stood by and let this happen. You had the opportunity to swing everything blue. had the opportunity to pressure them for four more years. had the opportunity to set the stage for some real change in 2028.

you fucks sold us up the fucking river for your pride and arrogance.

I'm fucking mad as hell, and you want to tell me where I need to direct my anger? Fuck your arrogant idealistic dream. You want me to direct my anger? How about I direct my fucking anger at you? The one who's trying to fucking manipulate me into attacking their opposition. I fucking know who I'm mad at.

fuck you, and fuck those 20 million Americans that willfully withheld their votes. I hope every single one of you chokes on your arrogance and pride when you're fucking starving in the camps those monsters are going to put us in.

[+] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] -3 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

This is just ridiculous, it was not an "armed robbery." You don't need to exaggerate to try and make your misguided point.

Its called a metaphor

How fucked up is it to demand someone's vote while telling them they're families lives don't matter? The DNC did that, not anyone else. That's been their whole play entire fucking campaign.

Answer me this. How fucked up is it to tell women and lgbt people that our lives are worth less than people halfway across the world who hate us just as much as Republicans. Because thats what you abstainers did.

They pressured them the last two years and the DNC refused to budge on damn near anything.

If you tried for two years and got nowhere, maybe the blame circles back to yall not accepting a clear "no".

It wasn't non-voters who lied about Biden's mental health. It wasn't non-voters who pushed him through the majority of the primary while keeping pertinent health information of his secret. It wasn't non-voters who humiliated their candidate, party, and country during a national debate because they thought they could hide his mental health decline. It wasn't non-voters who then pushed through a candidate the constituency didn't nominate, on a platform they didn't want, while suppressing any criticism of the DNC.

It wasnt the DNC either. Biden chose to try to run, against the advice of basically everyone around him. On the other hand, you might be the only person who isnt a Republican to give a shit about wanting a primary. Definitely the first Ive encountered.

100,000 people cast protest votes in Michigan alone over the Palestinian genocide, which is more than the number of votes Harris lost Michigan by. They put pressure on the DNC to take them seriously and heed their concerns, and what did the non-voters, I'm sorry, the DNC do in response?

See what I said above about ignoring a clear no, and telling the rest of us marginalized Americans we matter less than Palestine.

The Democrats have promised "real change is just four years away, we promise this time" since I was fucking born. Guess what? That bullshit excuse isn't flying anymore. Being sold the fucking status quo every fucking election cycle is old, and it's cost the DNC 4/7 the last elections.

The reason the DNC doesn't push progressive candidates, above all else, is that progressives cannot be counted on to vote. Why would they appeal to you when they know the moderate conservatives will at least show up.

You all demanded everyone vote the way you wanted, regardless of how they felt. So yeah, I am telling you where to direct your fucking anger, and it shouldn't be at people like me.

We demanded people vote against an obvious evil which would be worse for Palestine than Harris. That was never up for debate. The most basic of realpolitik should've told you all to vote for her regardless if saving Palestinian lives was your goal. As evidended by...

Who voted fucking Harris, btw, you fucking twat.** Begrudgingly, despite my displeasure with almost everything she stood for. And if you look at my comment history, you'll see I remained adamant that no one should vote for Trump while still trying to paint a fucking realistic picture of the situation.

Congratulations, you get a cookie. Now why couldnt the other 14,999,999 work that one out?

Didn't realize "maybe the DNC should have platformed on policies that their constituents were vocal about during the campaign" was an arrogant idealistic dream.

Guess I should just settle for the status quo and hope the party that just showed me they wouldn't budge will maybe budge in four years.

Wanting the DNC to field a more progressive candidate isnt wrong. Expecting them to do so in response to not voting is an idealistic dream, and blaming them for siding with the faction that can be trusted to show up is the arrogance.

You want some hard fucking truths from someone who's supposedly your fucking enemy?

NO ONE fucking owes you anything in life. They don't owe you their protection, they don't owe you the truth, they don't owe you fucking anything.

Noone owes us protection, but we owe Palestine? That makes sense/ And, tell me again, which candidate was better for them?

So when you entitled fucking children scream and shout about all the people who didn't vote, you need to remember that they don't owe you fucking shit.

You weren't entitled to anyone's vote simply by virtue of wanting to stop fascism, so fuck right off with this entitlement that all fucking liberal elite assholes seem to think they deserve.

So Im not entitled to anyones vote, as an American trans woman. But Palestine is? You are at best inconsistent, and at worst a hypocrite. And the fact stopping fascism wasnt a good enough sell to earn those votes says more about you than our entitlement

[+] [email protected] 0 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

[removed by mod]

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 weeks ago

So what would you want people to do when their kids/grandkids ask them what ~~they~~ did to stop a genocide? Isn't Lemmy always screaming about, regardless of the reasoning, a Nazi is a Nazi.

I cant have kids, but if Im ever in that position Ill tell them exactly what I told you: I did not believe that position politically viable and am perfectly willing to gamble in lives because you have to be in politics. Thats alot of what politics is. Additionally, they sure didnt give af about preventing my genocide at home. In fact, alot of them probably support it if anything, so why tf should I care about theirs halfway across the world?

So it's ok to force me to support a genocide, rather than shift your p[arty's platform to reflect what the voters actually want?

"Your issue clearly didn't matter, so stfu and blame yourself for having fucking convictions."

Or, here's an idea: if the same people are bringing the same concern to you consistently over the course of two fucking years, maybe you, the candidate, need to rethink your. policies.

Or, maybe they kept it up despite being ignored for two years because it was that fucking important to them as an issue.

What a fucking joke, you seriously read what you're writing here and go, "Oh yeah, I am so smart, I know everything."

Im gonna come back to this alot. But yes, sometimes it IS inconvenient. You clearly either do not understand or reject the idea of realpolitik.

Your issue clearly didn't matter, so stfu and blame yourself for having fucking convictions."

Or, here's an idea: if the same people are bringing the same concern to you consistently over the course of two fucking years, maybe you, the candidate, need to rethink your policies.

Or, maybe they kept it up despite being ignored for two years because it was that fucking important to them as an issue.

What a fucking joke, you seriously read what you're writing here and go, "Oh yeah, I am so smart, I know everything."

It clearly was ONLY important to you. Maybe that's an unpleasant reality, but its the one we get to deal with. Much like the fact that most Americans are either facist, stupid, or both. Thats a horrible situation that makes politics real unpleasant, but pretending it isnt is not exactly a winning strategy. Most of us either dont care about Gaza enough to change our position, or dont think doing so is actually a viable strategy rn.

Look at exit polls, most people cite the economy and immigration as concerns, Palestine isnt even on the chart. Obviously we cant poll voters who didnt vote, but Trump actually lost votes from 2020, just not as badly. Unless we assume that all 15 million of those dropped voters stayed home over Gaza- which isnt likely given said exit polls- there are more Americans voting FOR Fascism because they blame Dems for the economic effects of the pandemic, and cant stand sharing the country with Latin Americans; than there likely are Americans who stayed home over Gaza. If you have a poll which suggests orherwise, Id love to see it

And the primary thing makes zero sense to me, the Dems haven't had an actual primary since Obama. 2016 they fucked Bernie over despite his popularity and forced Clinton on us, they basically forced through Biden by keep Warren in long enough to leech voters off a second Bernie run, and then we didn't even have one.

So the DNC tells the American people, "You don't get a say in who your candidate will be, and your candidate will also ignore you completely, but you have to vote for them." And you blame the voters for being apathetic? Yeah, makes sense, it's the fault of those not being represented for not being represented.

This used to be how both parties worked just as a point of fact. Primaries are a fairly new thing in the grand scheme. Its not your fault for not being represented, but it is for not taking the lesser evil. You chose not to vote, and that is your right. But that enables the worse candidate to win sometimes, you cant pretend like that isnt the case. Your vote and the DNC do not exist in a vacuum.

This is just elitist entitlement, "sEe WhAt i SaId AbovE aBoUt a ClEaR nO," fuck off. You don't get to dictate yes and no, the voters told the DNC how it would work: you change your policy on Palestine, or you don't get our votes.

That wasnt me trying to dictate anyway, I just had already spoken on the subject and didnt want to repeat myself. Its not elitist to not say the same thing twice.

The DNC, through their arrogance, hubris, and entitlement, decided they felt the voters were bluffing, and called them on it.

And the voters didn't bluff. Sure sounds to me like they all told the DNC "no," and maybe y'all need to fucking get over it and accept that No you got from your base.

Again, exit polls. Palestine wasnt a big issue to anyone except you, and the Dems are a big tent party with liberals, never-Trumpers, proper Socialists, ect to try to appeal to. Thats what being in a coalition is. Sometimes you have to make big compromises. Or you can choose not to vote and risk sinking us all, which- to reiterate- is your right, but seems like a tactically foolish decision when Trump is objectively going to be even worse. Why, if you care so much about this genocide and are so unwilling to compromise, would you rather risk selling them out completely instead of mitigating the damage. Whether you like it or not, whether it was wise or not, the DNC was not going to compromise. An explicitly anti-Israel position was not on the table. So why would you risk electing the candidate who is even more pro-Israel if you care so much about Gaza?

And since we're gonna play this bullshit "Explain to me why women's and LGBT lives matter less than Palestinians," I want you to explain to me why you weren't standing with your Arab American brothers and sisters demanding their voices be heard? Where was your support of their concerns, I mean, it's only fair you supported them like you're demanding they support you, right?

I voted for Harris because, among those concerns for LGBT and womens rights, I also understood Trump would be even worse for Gaza. Would an explicitly anti-Israel candidate be nice, sure. But that wasnt on the table. That is me standing with those people affedtee in the most effective way available to me.

And then I want you to explain to me why those Palestinian lives matter less than American LGBT and women's lives, because I sure would love to know why you feel entitled to their vote but they aren't entitled to their lives.

Theyre not entitled to my vote either, and you cant be surprised a trans woman doesnt feel much sympathy for people whos religion is explicitly misogynistic and transphobic. Setting that aside, again, I did vote in the best way available to me for them.

And hows their strategy of trying to win moderates over instead going? Lost four out of the last 7 elections? Real winning strategy there, maybe it'll work if we just double down and try to win even more moderate voters.

And the DNC doesn't push progressive candidates because they don't want progress, you fucking muppet. They're the other side of the conservative coin, they only care about the status quo.

They have to compromise, the DNC, the voters are done and aren't going to compromise anymore. And you can plug your ears and "but but but," all you fucking want: Harris didn't convince people she was worth voting for, full stop.

She fucking failed, she ran a loser campaign, and she fucking lost. And you're so "vote blue no matter who" you can't, or won't, understand that people aren't going to vote unless there's something worth voting for.

Every policy was "Well, we're just not gonna be as evil," basically. And people were expected to save democracy based on that? They had a fucking grand slam lined up (I know you like metaphors and such) ready to go, and Harris decided to bunt instead of swinging for the fences.

Considering you're so concerned about Gaza, I would think preventing the situation from getting even worse would be enough of a sell. If you think democracy is a good- and Im inferring you do- theb saving democracy should've earned your vote completely irrespective of who was running or what their policy was provided they will in fact save democracy. A rotten ham sandwhich shouldve earned your vote if you were being logically consistent. But you arent.

First: I'm a piece of shit when you think I haven't voted for Harris, and then when I tell you I do, you mock me as if that was the bare minimum and I'm an idiot for think it means anything. So which is it, do you want to celebrate those who did vote for Harris, or was that just the expectation that you felt entitled to?

Second: I've already answered this and you just keep plugging your ears and screaming it's the voters

Apparently Americans are so unhappy with the status quo, 14 million Dems chose to stay home. Maybe the Dems need to figure out what they did that made them so unpopular, and stop blaming their voting base for their failures.

One can do idiotic things without being an idiot. That being said, you want me to stand with Arab-Americans and Palestine by extension, here you go. Why should they trust voters like those who stayed home to advocate for them when- if your demands for justice are not conceded to- you would then elect the zionists over the status quo? Gaza is not a boolean vairable where things are so bad it doesnt matter what you do if you dont get justice, things can still get even worse. And you- who cares so much about advocating for them- would rather that happen if immediate justice is not onbthe table. You arent an idiot, but thats an idiotic position. (1/2, second part later. Im at work)