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Americans: Never, EVER question again how Hitler came to power in 1933 Germany (lemmy.world)
submitted 2 years ago by to c/leopardsatemyface@lemmy.world
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Because you now did it to yourself.

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[–] 120 points 2 years ago (54 children)

Is it because woman? Like holy shit, Biden was an old fuck and still won last time. Hillary didn't win. Wtf, is it really because woman!?

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  • [–] 73 points 2 years ago* (6 children)

    Partly. The DNC forcing Harris to adopt conservative talking points / abandon the Tim Walz progressive policies was also a massive blow to her base. You can't spend 8 years comparing Republicans to Nazis and then promise to put them on your cabinet and to continue their racist border policy. The DNC forced Harris to listen to donors over voters and this is the end result

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  • [+] 31 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 68 points 2 years ago* (31 children)

    I know they're not done counting everything yet, but as it currently stands..

    2020 Biden - 81.3m
    2024 Harris - 66.2m

    I'm disgusted with our country.

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  • [–] 32 points 2 years ago (8 children)

    I was looking at those numbers too. And if you compare Trump's 24 numbers to 2020, he lost about 4M votes this time. So it's not like the 20M from Biden voted for Trump this time, they just didn't vote.

    20 million people are going to be the reason for the death of Democracy.

    Assholes.

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  • [–] 35 points 2 years ago (4 children)

    20 million PLUS all the Trump voters.

    You must not focus solely on non-voters.

    • The people voting for Trump are much more directly responsible.
    • You will need those non-voters in the future, completely alienating them now will not help the cause.
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  • [–] 20 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    This is implying there is anything - any possible combination of words in the history of linguistics - that could ever convince them not to vote for Trump.

    I've seen them have their reasoning destroyed in debate, even using gentle wording, even pointing to Trump's own words. They don't change as a result.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago

    The inability to change, mental laziness and intellectual poverty don't absolve his voters of blame. They are adults and should be treated as such, thus anything else but holding them accountable for their actions is nothing but moral laziness on our part. The people voting for the candidate of "the party of personal responsibility" (what a cruel joke that is) need to take responsibility for their action.

    We need to be thrice as angry with the red hatters as with the non-voters.

    I know it feels worse to be betrayed by people who voted Biden not that long ago, mostly because we expect them to do better, while we have absolutely no expectations of anything positive from the Trump voters. But who is the bigger problem here? The people who ride the bus no matter where it's going or the people with their foot on the gas, accelerating towards the cliff?

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    completely alienating [non-voters] now will not help the cause

    So we just keep being nice to the braindead traitors who can't be arsed to get up off the couch and vote so we all don't live in Nazi World? Because they just haven't heard the right argument yet, or they just need a wee bit more cajoling, maybe a cookie next time.

    idc if it's existential malaise over the world burning up, or just that they get enough civic participation from their social media Feed. idc about their endless reasons for not showing up (I've heard them all up here in Ontario where less than 1/2 the eligible voters turned up, and they're all nonsense about how it's someone else's fault. They feel no shame about it: they've been thoroughly convinced that they're too good/smart to vote).

    You keep on with not alienating the braindead lumps. You'll find them endlessly commentating online, blaming The Woman for Doing It Wrong. Because Kamala didn't personally bring them tendies they decided their country should be governed AGAIN by a White Supremacist Rapist Incontinent Felon who's owned by frothy fundies who want to burn the witch.

    Every abstaining vote was a vote for Trump. They just wanted to be able to say Wasn't Me.

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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago

    This has layers to it.

    Morally: Yes, you are absolutely right. Non-voters share part of the blame of electing Donald Trump, they share a part of the moral responsibility and should absolutely be held accountable. Everyone who says "Wasn't me", needs to be told that they are part of the problem.

    Hell, telling people that non-voters are culpable was one of my first reactions.

    Strategically though it's important that I did not say that they should not be alienated at all, but that I said they should not be completely alienated. Just ask yourself two simple questions:

    • Can we (a broader left and left-leaning coalition) win future elections without them?
    • If we completely alienate them, if we treat them as enemies, will they vote how we need them to, or will they dig in and maybe even turn into the enemies we would prefer them not to be?
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  • [–] 0 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    The non-voters had nothing to do with this. They literally did not participate.

    Any real democracy would count the non-voters as part of the results. 20M not voting? OK then, any policies that affect everyone can no longer be enacted. No new laws. No new wars. Government can then maintain plumbing and provide public services, that's it.

    Why isn't that the case? Why is it not a requirement for people to vote for government to have power?

    Democracy...? Sure. Whatever hope you need to feel, friend, see you in the streets I hope.

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  • [–] 1 point 2 years ago (1 child)

    Why isn’t that the case?

    There is no law in the US mandating that people vote. I can only speculate as to how that started, and why that's still the case.

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  • [+] 22 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)
    [deleted]
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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago

    she was anointed like Hilary Clinton. Voters dont like that.

    Additionally, she and the democratic party didn't tackle or communicate economics, which is always issue #1 no matter what.

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  • [–] 17 points 2 years ago*

    It's a black woman, sadly for some that makes it even worse.

    Also watching from Europe it seemed very strange to see that biden was still first in line until it was obvious for everybody he's not fit for the job cognitively. And maybe that wasn't even the main problem. He just couldn't perform anymore and failed to present himself accordingly.

    Harris felt a little like an emergency choice but it was refreshing to see someone not clearly in decline due to old age.

    I would have voted for her because she's not trump, not because I think she would have been a great president.

    I just don't understand how it's possible that such old fucks are the candidates and I struggle to believe that they are capable of complex decisions.

    Who fucking guides them and tells them what to do and why do I have a tinfoil hat on?

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  • [–] 16 points 2 years ago

    sigh, had a contractor today tell me he's happy trump won because a woman would appear weak from the outside and we'd get attacked, he just hopes he doesn't do ''something stupid''. Idk man. I feel helpless around these people, there's nothing I can say to them that will change their world view.

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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    When Harris was selected, the first thing that crossed my mind was "we're running a woman against him again?" I was definitely hopeful after the enthusiasm surge, but I'm wondering how much her being a woman and a minority hurt her chances.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

    she fucked it up too. her interviews were awful. she kept going right. she undermined protesters. kept talking about having Republicans in the cabinet and being endorsed by Republicans and shit. dropped the "weird" narrative, which was effective, in favor of trying to compete with the orange cunt on xenophobia. not a great bargain. did a lot to kill the enthusiasm from the left just to appeal to the five remaining non-q conservatives.

    the main reason people wanted Biden to drop out was because he was going to depress turnout. then she did exactly that.

    America is racist and sexist so this was going to be an uphill battle but she could've not pushed her actual enthusiastic base to the side.

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Not any woman, a black woman. That's like a double nono in murica

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  • [–] 3 points 2 years ago

    I feel like since there is such a big margin there has to be more to it than racism. Ofc it played a role, and maybe I'm just too trusting of fellow Americans, but I think a better candidate/campaign could have overcome the disadvantage of being a black woman.

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  • [–] -1 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    No I don't think it is because "woman" but rather "obvious awkward disingenous hello there!fellow kids!" Reasons why McCain wasn't nominee Kerry failed and many other reasons. Bernie would have won. Just sayin'. But too late now innit. It's not old guy or woman. It's how the dems campaign with zero and negative conviction benefits or reasons for voters to go vote. Not copium but sad reality. Most people live paycheck to paycheck. If your policies don't align then they won't risk their life for you.

    And climate change doesn't reduce the grocery bills or stop inflation. Just sayin'

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    It's climate change increasing pressures in hundreds of domains, making people fearful and easy to manipulate. It's happening the world over. Blaming candidates for not showing enough conviction is just another kind of copium.

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  • [–] 7 points 2 years ago

    And in fact, wanting candidates to show conviction could be seen as problematic element, as conviction is really not what we need right now in regards to getting elected. Anyone thinking even remotely rationally about the world their children will live in ought to figure that out for themselves.

    The big problem is though that vast voting blocks including their candidates are:

    a) the ones who fucked it up in the first place. b) too old to care how much things go to shit after them.

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