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this post was submitted on 23 Sep 2024
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I mean call me crazy but I feel like a minister from a country trying to justify why he doesn't see internationally recognized countries as actual countries is pretty Onion-y to me. The icing on top is that it's coming from a minister in a country known for illegally stealing land and re-defining their own borders against international law.
No, not particularly Onioney.
I get where you're coming from but if we follow that logic then majority of the posts on this community about Trump and his MAGA fanatics would be disqualified. Just because ridiculous is the norm for these people doesn't mean we stop calling it out.
tbf, Trump says a lot more random, off-the-wall shit than Israel does. Israel isn't very random, much more cold and calculated. Not very satire-like.
That's not what the purpose of this community though. The purpose is to have headlines that can pass as a satirical one from The Onion at first glance. To me this fits the definition.
If you say so. To me that requires an expectation that this would be unusual, something that would catch the eye as notable, instead of just being perfectly in-line with the norms of the time.
Don't normalize this kind of behavior and accept it. You're just asking to be gaslit and enables them to be more bold in their next statements. It's not a coincidence this statement came out just as Israel launches the deadliest attack on Lebanon in 15 years and telling the inhabitants to move out or face death. Ridicule and shame them for every outlandish statement they preach. Every. Single. One.
I don't really do the shame thing, it doesn't work whatsoever on the shameless, which is a very high percentage of the global population unfortunately.
Regardless, the question is not whether we're normalizing it, but whether it is their pattern of behavior or not. Not that it's acceptable, but that it's predictable. Just because they don't act how other people act doesn't mean everything they say seems like satire. Imo at least.
It's not the country's he's talking about. It's the little areas of remote territory along Israel's borders, that while technically part of those countries, they don't resemble a country at all. There is no legit government. There is no law enforcement. There are no courts of law. They are essentially unincorporated territories held variously by local militias and tribes.
If Lebanon and Syria want to claim this territory as part of their country, they have to actually make it a part of a country, bring it under the jurisdiction of their law. Be legitimate leadership. Work towards the betterment of the people whose charge they claim.
Israel is not going to let it be surrounded by lawless territory that Iran uses to stage attacks against Israel, certainly not while Iran is over there trying to cook up nuclear material to make dirty bombs.
If you took even fifteen seconds to actually listen to the argument that's being made, instead of only half, understanding it and rushing to an emotional judgment, you'd realize it doesn't sound like The Onion at all. It's an argument made by people all over the world, especially as to Gaza, for example, and, guess what? It's a legit argument.
Iran, Iraq, and Lebanon, and sort of Syria, are not quite failed States, because they do still have a seat of power within their countries, and they do project that power to a limited extent. But they do not project it into these lawless border territories. And so when you have essentially gangs and terror cells, pretending to be legitimate political entities, how many suicide bombings, rocket attacks, and mass shootings must your neighbors abide before they bring their law to your territories? FAFO.
The historical term for such territories is irredenta, meaning unredeemed or unclaimed.
Every wonder why? Here's a little hint:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/15/mapping-israel-lebanon-cross-border-attacks
Notice the number of attacks by Israel is over 5 times the amount compared to Hezbollah. This is exactly how Israel operates. Destabilize a region forcing the inhabitants to leave then move in and claim it's part of their territory. Then once the actual native population try to have it back, they cry victim and massacre them in the name of self defense. They're already trying to settle areas in Gaza and the West Bank. It's not a coincidence this statement appeared just as Israel launches the deadliest attack in Lebanon in the past 15 years and tells them to leave or face death.
The Golan Heights would like a word with you.
Love your casual use of the word lawless as if that indicates a lack of morality and a justification to settle territory that belongs to another nation.
I'm not being emotional and claiming a country doesn't exist or it's territories don't belong to it is not a legit argument. Don't try and gaslight the situation here.
You ever stop to consider why these countries are struggling to retain control? Countries like Iraq that got decimated and completely destabilized by the US under the false pretense of WMD's? Each country you listed can have it's destabilization traced back to foreign interference by foreign countries like the US and Israel. Destabilizing an entire region then calling it "lawless" and justifying the theft of the land for your own benefit is not a valid argument. This approach should be shamed and ridiculed just as we are doing here.
Lol.
No. The men that run these places want to live like it's the year 800. They struggle because they govern by assassination and religious fiat. More power to them; world needs all types. Really just two rules, though: don't try and export any of that bullshit or force it on anyone else, and at least, make a good faith effort to take care of the basic needs of the people: some public or subsidized utilities and infrastructure for food, water, and energy, some form of a healthcare system, and some system of law that's at least capable of protecting human rights of the people, capable of policing corruption and conflicts of interest. Far right, extreme religious monarchies and dictatorships, have a real hard time with both rules; especially extremists don't wear uniforms and who use women and kids as cannon fodder. If they can't project any legitmate justice and peace to the territory they claim, and it gets overrun with armed religious psychopaths on a pan-national religious conquest, that's fair game for military action.
Like, it's not trespassing to go onto your neighbor's land, right up to the front door, break it down with an axe while screaming, and then blast everyone inside with water, if'n their house is on fire and spreading to yours. This is natural law, no?
And there we have it folks. This is what actual evil looks like. Individuals like this one who dehumanize people all for being born less fortunate than them and using it to justify atrocities being committed. It's legitimately sad and pathetic that people like this exist.
Blah blah blah everything I don't like is evil.
No, these are the evil people, violent religious extremists. Launching thousands of rockets a month indiscriminately at civilians. That's the atrocity. Spending all that money on rockets while their own people are malnourished and uneducated because every every institution and natural resources was converted to instrumentalities of Iranian state-sponsored terrorism. Grow up.
As long as the people don't get killed by bombs, your fine with how they live their lives; no civil rights, no human rights, no legit legal system, no social safety nets, rule by assassination. Go over to to these places you are about so deeply and suggest they have an election. See if you don't literally get stoned to death for infidelity to the word of an imaginary god. That's evil.
It's not millions of people living and dying, generation after generation, knowing nothing but hopelessness and anger, wrought on them by their own deranged leadership, and their own deranged world view. That, you'e fine with continuing, just as long as you don't have to see it in the news. I think that makes you not just evil, but also ignorant and shortsighted. Childish really.
Loving your convenient oversight of why people are in that position to begin with. It's not like every relevant expert and organization calls Palestine the largest open air prison and likens it to the treatment of the Jews by Nazi Germany. But no, it's their fault that they had their entire lives ripped from them by foreigners, and all their wealth is taken and controlled as well. It's definitely their fault that almost half of the Palestinians are younger than 18 and not because the older ones keep dying from a corrupt government with no oversight.
The best part is that when I actually addressed all your points and showed you how wrong you are, you just resorted to generalizations and racism to endorse the ongoing genocide. You couldn't even prove I'm wrong.
All this, and I'm evil and childish. Get a life.
Not every relevant expert says that. So...shows how much you know. No surprised that you've misunderstood by arguments as racism. Ideologicalism, maybe, and so what?
Comparisons to Nazi Germany are idiotic. How far did you go in school?
I went pretty far in school thanks for asking. Landed a nice stable job in a good career.
I'd like to point out once again that you failed to address any of my points directly and just resorted to generalizations and attacks on me in an attempt to discredit me rather than prove any of your points. There's clearly no actual point to discuss anything with you since you don't seem to be interested in that.
Highschool only then?
Does your troll farm pay you by the comment? You just don't seem to be able to not say anything even when you have nothing of value to say.
Grow up.
Cha-ching!
I would agree with you if he would be talking about the border regions alone. But he is (at least in the translations), speaking about the whole countries not being a country because of those border regions. And that is stupid and Oniony.
Border regions not being under the control of the central government is a legitimate thing to criticize the countries for, but not a reason to call them not countries. Otherwise Ukraine would also not be a country by that definition, since it doesn't control all their regions currently.
I'm not a translator but I'm not going to read into that one noun form. The next sentence refers to certain areas within their borders, and everyone knows exactly where he's talking about. For the last year there's been 1,000 rockets a month launched indiscriminately at Israel. Not hard to step out where they're coming from, right? Before that, it was dozens, hundreds, or sometimes also tousands, months to month.
I'm sure you can find some maps of territory held by terrorists in the region and which countries sponsor and ally with them, and which ones designate them as such. Terrorists don't get to have a state.
If they're not a country you'd have to say that Somalia, Ethiopia, Sudan, Myanmar, Yemen and so on are also not coutcries. Country is a country if it's internationally recognized as a country which is why Somaliland and Western Sahara are generally not considered countries but Lebanon is.
Just because a country doesn't think another is not does not justify an invasion.
True. they certainly were countries.
When it's your neighbor, though, and they launch 1,000 rockets at you every month, your assessment of the situation will probably be most up to date. The land is your border, after all. And if lawlessness spills over, That certainly can be cause for just war.