this post was submitted on 20 Sep 2024
589 points (97.1% liked)
Work Reform
10134 readers
135 users here now
A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
Our Philosophies:
- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
Our Goals
- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
- Better worker representation, including but not limited to unions.
- Better and fewer working hours.
- Stimulating a massive wave of worker organizing in the United States and beyond.
- Organizing and supporting political causes and campaigns that put workers first.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
There is a concept that companies and managers need to wrap their stupid brains around. And that is that they are paying for your work not your time. So long as you complete the jobs and tasks they ask of you and need from you it shouldn't matter what the hell you're doing otherwise.
But they're dumb Boomer infected brains have been programmed to expect people to sit in cubicles and offices like drones and stare at computer screens all day long. All so rich CEOs can walk through the building and feel more impressive.
P.S. obviously this is referring to salaried jobs not hourly jobs.
Gonna blow some fucking minds here: There are dishwashers in offices! And all sorts of other bits and pieces like coffee makers to futz around with. Got to be seen to be doing your share! Make a pot of coffee! Unload the dishwasher!
Honestly I am sure I waste just as much time or more when I'm in the office. And I'm interrupted more often so I'm less productive generally.
My partners boss took a lot of issues with multitasking and I can't understand his logic.
I was getting fed up of my partners breakfast and lunch dishes piling up in the kitchen.
I'd come home from work to find the kitchen a disaster zone. I wouldn't even have a clean spot of bench space to put my water bottle down.
My partner would explain he didn't have long enough on his lunch break to wash the dishes, and his boss was cracking down on people doing personal chores during the work day.
I suggested if he can't clean up like he's at home, he needs to prepare food like he's in the office. Ie, make a lunch box the night before so there aren't 40 dishes on the day.
He explained that this is how he used to eat in the office, because they had a cleaner who worked while everyone was in, tidying up after them, they'd cook meals for each other and eat family style, and his boss still encourages family lunches via teams/zoom.
So his boss used to hire someone to clean while the pencil pushers were pushing pencils. Now there is no one who's job is to clean, but his boss won't let anyone clean up after themselves, but still expects them to generate mess for team building.
I told my partner he can either get a lunch box, or he can tell his boss "I'm doing the dishes during the work day, if you'd prefer I don't, I won't, but I'll need a raise because divorce is expensive"
If it was any other boss, I'd tell my partner to suck it up and eat faster so he can wash up on his break, but it's the fact the boss is still working in the office with the cleaner, so he's got someone cleaning up as he works, but he won't allow his staff to also work in a safe and clean environment.
Yeah that's a terrible boss. There are a shit ton of those. And the fact that they're arranging his work at home the way he would work in an office is just ridiculous. The idea that you have a "lunch break" at home is just stupid. You should be able to do the work as it's needed not clock-in clock-out style like they're in an office.
It also comes from the fact that many jobs, and many more historically, are/were, in fact, paying you for your time. If you're fortunate enough to work in a job that doesn't care how much of your time is "company time," and you can work 5 hours a week to get everything expected of you done, that's great, but I would be quiet about it.
Any manager I've met would likely make a decision to give you 8x the amount expected of you each week, if that's your situation. That would indicate to me that we can find find someone less skilled that will take longer to complete objectives but we can pay significantly less, or we're not getting as much out of you as we're paying for.
Most people don't have the luxury you're describing, so I would hold on to that job situation!
The backlog at my old job was a solid couple of years long. Probably a decade if you included all the non-critical stuff
Ok, first there are no jobs like this. Or, to be more precise, there are jobs like this but they are few and far between and are always in offices where you can make it look like it's taking a lot of time to get your work done while basically goofing off. And generally speaking they're hourly paid.
Salaried jobs, on the other hand, have a pretty rigorous work load. They don't hire people for a salary position without knowing how much work it takes to get the job done. So whether you are sitting in an office or sitting at your desk at home, the same amount of actual work is required. The only difference is that you don't waste hours getting dressed up and commuting to your job. This is why work from home arrangements tend to be far more efficient for both the worker and the company.
The reason these CEOs and managers are trying to force everyone back into offices is to justify their own egos and jobs. There is literally a ton of evidence that work from home jobs are way more productive than work from office jobs. But these egotistical douchebags don't care. They need to see people slaving away at a desk and to be seen walking through their expensive office buildings in order to feel like they are worthwhile.
I think your argument overlooks some important factors. First, it might not be the case you're maximizing productivity for the company when, by your own admission, you're regularly taking longer lunches and ending work early. Research shows that while remote work can increase productivity by 10-20% for some people, other research shows a decline in productivity. Additionally a recent study from Harvard indicated the productivity increase is less about daily productivity but rather that there are less sick days being taken because they can WFH and turnover decreases because people don't want to leave for a better job (or get fired for taking sick days while WFH) without WFH benefits, which can also stagnate wages. And your stated dramatic threefold increase in efficiency seems extremely unlikely.
The idea that you can complete all your work in less hours a week I believe, but not without any trade-offs. Studies show that remote workers are often more productive due to fewer distractions and no commute, but employers expect that time saved to translate into higher output, not shorter workdays. If a manager noticed you had that extra time, I'm just saying they’d likely give you more tasks to fill your work hours more effectively.
So, while remote work might make you more efficient, your argument that productivity offsets a reduction in work hours might not hold up if you get an asshole manager or project director that has good surveillance of your workflow. A manager would see the underused time and adjust your workload accordingly to maximize your productivity, so I'm just saying you might not want to make it obvious to any superiors that they can extract more labor from you. Though, I think that's generally good advice for any job! Protect your time.
There is no accounting for shitty bosses. And this happens in the office as well.
I also don't see why you seem to be arguing against work from home. Most people who do work from home are pretty happy with it, the only ones who tend to not be happy with it are corporate execs. And I've already stated why I think they don't like it.
And my main point remains the same. The problem is that corporations and companies think they own your time. That is the problem. They are paying you for work they need done, your time is your own. Or at least it should be.
Honestly, what pretty much all office workers truly need is a union. They all need to unionize and develop contracts with these companies that outline exactly what they can ask of them and what they get in return.
I agree with your last point, and while I'm not against working from home—in fact, I think it's fantastic for employees—I don't believe it's equally great for businesses. The shift to remote work has really highlighted just how much of the work people do is, in Graeber's words, "bullshit." As David Graeber aptly said, "It's as if someone were out there making up pointless jobs just for the sake of keeping us all working."
This realization is a bit uncomfortable for many companies because it suggests that a significant part of their operations might not be as crucial as they thought. Instead of streamlining and rethinking these roles, they're currently expanding managerial surveillance. Companies are now using intrusive monitoring tools that track every keystroke, mouse movement, and even how long you're inactive. Eventually that could reasonably lead to efficiency firings and that "comfort buffer" that WFH has created will be replaced with additional tasks and expectations.
This heightened surveillance turns the promise of flexibility and freedom that WFH initially offered into a kind of digital panopticon, where employees feel like they're constantly being watched. It raises concerns that we might be heading toward a hyper-Fordist nightmare—a future where the efficiency being chased at the expense of worker well-being is given new and more powerful tools, and the lines between work and personal life become hopelessly blurred.
It also seems like an obvious answer is to dramatically decrease salaried employees who take long lunches and quit work early because they've "completed their tasks," to task-dependent contracts with assumption (but no guarantee) of renewal. It sounds like you're in the sweet spot between the previous reality of work and the possible future reality, and I'm just saying you should ride and extend that situation as long as you can.
The early excitement about working from home could unintentionally lead to significant downsides for employees. Invasive monitoring can ramp up stress, erode privacy, and make people feel dehumanized. Plus, the loss of trust between employers and employees can hurt morale and actually decrease productivity over time. It seems important to address these issues now to prevent remote work from becoming a tool for unprecedented employee exploitation, which is why I think of all your commentary so far, your last paragraph here is probably the most agreeable and important.