this post was submitted on 18 Sep 2024
282 points (97.3% liked)

Linux

47756 readers
957 users here now

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

Rules

Related Communities

Community icon by Alpár-Etele Méder, licensed under CC BY 3.0

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Linus Torvalds Speaks on the the divide between Rust and C Linux developers an the future Linux. Will things like fragmentation among the open source community hurt the Linux Kernel? We'll listen to the Creator of Linux.

For the full key note, checkout: Keynote: Linus Torvalds in Conversation with Dirk Hohndel

The Register's summary: Torvalds weighs in on 'nasty' Rust vs C for Linux debate

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 46 points 4 weeks ago (5 children)

C, C-like, or Rust

As always, Ada gets no respect.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 4 weeks ago (3 children)

Start the linuxa or alinux project and off you trot. Find a better name than I did here and you'll be fine.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Ladux? Linda? +Linux, pronounced "Add a Linux" -> Ada Linux? LinLace?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 4 weeks ago (2 children)
[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

Images of smoking Eastern European jalopy intensifies.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

I prefer Trabant.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 weeks ago

Anixa for the win

[–] [email protected] 5 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Nor does Forth (which used to be a common choice for "first thing to bootstrap on this new chip architecture we have no real OS for yet"). Alas, they're just not popular languages these days.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Forth is fun but not really suitable for large, long-lasting projects with huge developer communities. Linux isn't being bootstrapped, it's already here and has been around for decades and it's huge. And, I think bootstrapping-by-poking-around on a new architecture has stopped being important. Today, you have compiler and OS's targeted to the new architecture under simulation long before there is any hardware, with excellent debugging tools available in the simulator.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago (1 children)

Have you actually ever used Ada? It's like programming with handcuffs on.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I have played with Ada but not done anything "real" with it. I think I'd be ok with using it. It seems better than C in most regards. I haven't really looked into Rust but from what I can gather, its main innovation is the borrow checker, and Ada might get something like that too (influenced by Rust).

I don't understand why Linux is so huge and complicaed anyway. At least on servers, most Linux kernels are running under hypervisors that abstract away the hardware. So what else is going on in there? Linux is at least 10x as much code as BSD kernels from back in the day (idk about now). It might be feasible to write a usable Posix kernel as a hypervisor guest in a garbage collected language. But, I haven't looked into this very much.

Here's an ok overview of Ada: http://cowlark.com/2014-04-27-ada/index.html

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

This is how they want to frame it. C has footguns, therefore use Rust—instead of Rust is one of the options you could use.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 weeks ago

I don't think Ada in the kernel would get any cultural acceptance. Rust has been hard enough. C++ was vehemently rejected decades ago though the reasons made some sense at the time. Adopting C++ today would be pretty crazy. I don't see much alternative to Rust (or in a different world, Ada) in the monolithic kernel. But Rust seems like it's still in beta test, and the kernel architecture itself seems like a legacy beast. Do you know of anything else? I can't take D or Eiffel or anything like that seriously. And part of it is the crappiness of the hardware companies. Maybe it will have to be left to future generations.