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In what way do you think it should have been fixed? A Philips/Biden/Williamson debate?
Didn't they already tell you? The primary election is done.
It's hard to keep the talking points in order, I guess.
This particular thread is about whether we had adequate primaries or not. Not when they were.
Sure, but "The primaries are over." Whether that primary was "adequate" when Biden was a candidate is kind of orthoganal to Harris securing enough delegate endorsements.
Seemed like the other commenter was dismissing the primary as "over" with one side of their mouth while complaining about its "inadequacy" with the other.
Sure. I was mainly concerned with the inadequacy side of it this time. My problem is tangential to the OP post but not directly related. I firmly believe the primary was actually adequate, and am interested in discussing it, at great length if necessary.
The primaries are over thing is a legitimate argument imo, I have no issues with it. I fully understand how people could be upset with the current situation, I think that is a healthy, democratic opinion a person can have, even if I don't personally share it.
I didn't bring up the primary. Someone else brought it into the conversation (you in fact) and I responded to that point. That's why threads fork.
Sorry, all the propagandists look the same to me.
What makes me a propagandist?
It's not complicated. There is no time for a primary at this point. We had an official primary, but it was a farse. This is where the incestuous relationship between the political establishment and the media establishment comes in. They can do their primary without it ever being an actual contest. When mainstream media backs a single candidate and shuts out all others from public view, a primary becomes a joke.
This is where the blue MAGA accusation becomes valid. You would never in a million years be OK with this state of affairs if it didn't benefit your chosen candidate. You don't want democracy, you want to be in charge.
It might have saved us the Biden Trump debate.
Probably not. Dean was running to the right of Biden and unlikely to appeal to current day dems, and Williamson has no political experience.
If the Biden that debated Trump showed up to debate Williamson, she would hand him his ass. If she's inexperienced then let her make a fool out of herself. I'm not outraged that I didn't get my choice, but I am outraged that the establishment can just shut opponents out of the public discourse and subvert the primary. You don't get to decide all by yourself who is qualified to be President.
Making a requirement that a certain amount of support is necessary before wasting time and money on debates is reasonable. Williamson has no experience, and debate performance has minimal value in deciding who wins an election or how good of a president they would be. Hilary won debates, lost the election.
This hanging onto debates as some sort of important thing is foolish. In 2020, the DNC set a record of 20 million people watching their most viewed debate. Out of 330 million citizens. Almost two dozen people participated in the debates. People just don't really give a shit about debates, they're not a particularly good medium, and are unnecessary to understand a candidates positions in the era of wikipedia.
You are ignoring or rewriting every argument I make into something unrecognizable. I never said there should be no threshold for inclusion. Blackballing every potential candidate before they even declare is another thing entirely. No candidate is "serious" when the media won't put it Tennessee n the air. Remember when MSNBC put Trump's empty podium on the air instead of covering Bernie's announcement? They even had a reporter there, but staton management got a call from the Hillary campaign and it was shut down.
You can quit lecturing me on the process and it's rationalizations. I guarantee that I'm more familiar with them than you are, so quit being condescending.
I believe it was you who brought up debates. All I want is the Democrats to stop muscling progressives off mainstream media, give them a podium for a convention speech (since the primary is over) then let the chips fall where they may. Is that so unreasonable? I don't even think anyone but Harris has a real shot, but messaging candidates are important.
Ultimately the message here is, progressives, sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and tow the party line. All I want is the appearance of a contest, but even that is considered radical.
How many voters do you think read up on candidates on Wikipedia? Come on, pretend to be at least a little savvy.
All I've done is try to understand your positions and try to support my own. If I've mischaracterized yours I apologize and encourage you to correct me. Really though, I think your position becomes very weak when any other framing except your conspiratorial one is used.
Politics is hardball, no question about it. Especially nowadays. The media is its own thing though, they can put whatever they want on the air, for whatever reason. Our first amendment allows this freedom of the press, for better or for worse. Though I do agree some of the behavior of the Hilary campaign was unethical.
What progressive candidates have been recently blackballed? This reeks of conspiracy theory. I think the real reason we do not see more progressive candidates is that most democratic voters are not really all that progressive, unfortunately. It sometimes seems to me the party is held up mainly by soccer moms. Everyone knew Bernie was running, announcement speech on MSNBC or no. But he lost the popular vote to Hilary, 13.2 million to 16.9 million. I don't think any change in MSNBC's behavior could have swung it his way, with its viewership of about 1 million.
Sorry if I've offended you, but your guarantees of your own knowledge do not impress me. Your arguments and evidence in support of your own positions are what I'm paying attention to.
I think vastly, vastly more people look to wikipedia than any debate or interview watching. For one thing, it's much more time efficient. For another, you get more than just pre-packaged sound bites and prepared lines of attack. To be fair though, I suppose we should include candidate websites as well.