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this post was submitted on 01 May 2024
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"Some"...
All they have to do is leave the area their ancestors have lived in for thousands of years so random Europeans who converted to Judaism a couple years ago can seize it.
First of all, a whole lot of people have done that very thing for a better life.
Secondly, those Jews have been there as long as Arabs have.
In most cases, longer. Jews had been in Iraq more than a thousand years before Islam was even developed.
So do you think Ukranians should leave and let Russia have their land?
Factually untrue.
The only reason Israel was created was Europeans countries still wanted to get rid of their Jewish populations.
So they sent them to the Middle East and told the people living there to GTFO.
Edit:
Also while nouns are used for ethnicity, adjectives are appropriate for things like religion.
If they were Arabs, then they're from that area.
They may be Jewish as well. But saying anyone that's Jewish is from the Middle East just isn't logical.
There are Ukrainians in the US.
Where did the word Judah come from and where is it?
And there are Israelis here too... I know a couple that escaped after being forced into the IDF.
By your logic every human alive has a claim to Africa and can go there and genocide their incredibly distant cousins because Africa is rightfully theirs...
You're talking about stuff from thousands of years ago. Israel the country has existed for less time than the current US president has been alive. Who cares about a different ancient kingdom?
If you want to start in 1948, that's when Palestine was created too.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine#British_Mandate_of_Palestine
Palestine existed, the British broke some off and created Israel.
That doesn't mean Palestine became a new territory that also happened to be called Palestine.
It was still Palestine, just missing some pieces of Palestine.
By your logic, the British also created India when they broke a piece off to make Pakistan...
The UN created Isreal as well as Palestine. Yes, there were Arabs in the area all along. The jews were there 3,000 years ago but were forced off by the Romans. TheBrits simply held the territory after WWII.
So...
That was 2,000 years ago...
Should the royal family of England also return England to it's natives?
Should they return America to the Native Americans?
They didn't seem to agree with the Irish when they wanted to kick the English out of Ireland.
Why stop at 3,000 years ago?
Why not return it to the descendants of the first hominids that set foot there? Modern Asians had to cross thru first to get to Asia, and some went all the way to the Americas.
Should we give Native Americans Israel and call it a day? Sure, they left, but by your logic that doesn't matter
Let us settle on a date. I guess not the history of an ancient land. I guess not the creation of state. What is it?
What's not to get?
Palestine has existed uninterrupted for thousands of years...
It was where Abraham first started hearing voices in his head commanding him to kill his family which launched Judaism, Christianity, and Islam.
Israel was created less than a century ago and it's borders have only expanded. And they argue that they're "the real Palestinians" and claim Palestine's history as their own.
None of that makes logical sense, but it's easy to see what they're trying to do.
Reading history, this is not true.
Fucking what
EDIT: Love that I'm getting downvoted for being appalled by the "They aren't REAL Jews" rhetoric here. Stay classy. Maybe if you embrace enough antisemitism, you'll stop the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people.
There's this notion that modern Israelis are essentially just Europeans who invaded after WWII, which is simply not true.
While the Zionist movement largely did originate in Europe in the late 1800s, the majority of Israeli citizens today are not of European ancestry / Ashkenazi. The majority are what's called Mizrahi, coming from Middle Eastern Jewish communities that were forcibly expelled from Arab countries during the 50s and 60s. For instance, Ben Gvir, the current Minister of Defense (and to be clear, a complete little shit), is from an Iraqi family. In 1948, there were roughly 150,000 Jews in Iraq, making up nearly 40% of the population of Baghdad. Today, there are estimated to be less than five. Likewise, in Yemen, there were roughly 50,000 Jews, maintaining a presence that goes back well over 2500 years. Today, there may be one single Jew left in the country. The same situation happened all throughout the Arab world. The departing Jews generally had to flee their homes without any significant belongings, since their property was often confiscated. In Syria, for instance, a 1964 decree prevented Jews from traveling more than 3 miles from their homes, banned them from owning land, banned them from working in the government or in banks, banned them from leaving anything as inheritance - which would instead be seized by the state.
This person thinks that because the Jews who emigrated to Israel after the Holocaust were from Europe, their grandchildren who were born in Israel are somehow not deserving of living where they were born and should "go back where they came from". It's the same old dog whistle
And you think those are just random Europeans who converted to Judaism to seize Israel for the lulz? Because that's quite clearly the assertion that I quoted and am disputing.
Fuck, man, I think the creation of Israel was a mistake, but "They aren't real Jews!" is going into some Black Israelites shit.
Zionism predates the creation of Israel. The creation of Israel was recognition of a de facto state of affairs that had developed out of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire which resulted in large numbers of Jews fleeing traditionally-antisemitic Europe (as Nazi Germany would soon prove was a life-saving choice), and later of Jews fleeing a rising wave of nationalist antisemitism in Arab states.
Jesus Christ.
First, please look into the demographics of Israeli Jews.
Second, "At most a single generation"? Jesus fucking Christ, are you being serious?
I feel like we could get into a long argument here about the history of the region, but I think all of that is secondary to the fact that none of that has anything to do with Europeans converting to Judaism to steal Palestinian land. Jews from Europe, fleeing persecution, came to Palestine, where there was already a sizable Jewish minority.
When the fuck have I excused the ongoing genocide?
Here, let me help you out by requoting literally everything I said before you objected to me:
Wow. So let me guess, you think every Israeli should vacate the middle east right? Even people who were born there, creating the same issue all over again. And let me guess, you don't want the Arab or Muslim Israelis to leave right? Just "certain" ones
Great comment. The problem here isn't Israel or Judaism, it's Zionism, which is fundamentally opposed to peace with non-followers. There's a world where Israel can exist as some sort of territory and where Jews and Muslims can exist in that space together, but that will never happen as long as Zionism remains the dominant policy of the State of Israel. It's literally lebensraum in the 21st century.
Removed, civility.