[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

alternative means of mass transit would be the most effective policy.

Why not both?

between Houston and Dallas

Isn't this article about UK?

[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Yeah a carbon tax would be much more effective. Policy that only informs consumers is generally not very impactful.

[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

Why doesn't the hypocrisy argument hold water?

The wrong boys can explain it better than I can if you're willing to listen to a podcast about it. I find them very amusing so it's long but an easy listen.

https://srslywrong.com/podcast/325-the-idea-of-hypocrisy/

The meme I was referencing is this: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat

[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago

Fair enough. I don't think being a hypocrite is such a bad thing :)

https://srslywrong.com/podcast/325-the-idea-of-hypocrisy/

[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 3 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

what would you think about a vegan running around yelling, "meat is murder" and then sitting down to eat a bacon double cheeseburger?

The hypocrisy argument really doesn't hold much water. Real "yet you participate in society. Curious!" energy. It is ok to advocate for systemic change while participating in an unethical society. I think it's more honest to acknowledge the limits of what your individual buying power can do. I'll read the article though. Cory Doctorow is great.

[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

This is a good point, it certainly seems to impact branding/how companies choose to present themselves.

[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Sadly the alternative is accelerating everything bad. So it's up to those of us awake to the issue to do whatever we can.

I guess I just don't think the only alternative is "ethical consumerism" and I don't think that will it ever create any significant change given how difficult it is to do well (if such a thing is even possible) and how few people realistically will ever engage with it to begin with. There are lots of methods of resistance, many of which have been shown to create real systemic change in the past and in my opinion are far more worth your time money and effort, including:

  • Participating in boycotts that are well-organized with specific actionable demands
  • Labor movements/union power
  • Donating to political orgs fighting for systemic change
  • Voting for direct democratic initiatives that push policy forward
  • Moving from for profit solutions to community built ones, buy nothing groups, mutual aid, etc.

Maybe we will just have to agree to disagree

[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago

But this just lends to my point that it's ridiculous to expect average consumers who are just trying to survive to juggle all of these things that they can't easily see and which business owners have a direct incentive to hide. There's a reason that ethical consumerism hasn't worked.

[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 0 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

If we all shopped at 20 million different stores instead of the same one, we would not recreate the same oligarch power.

Even if it didn't, which I'm still skeptical of, the products on the shelves would likely still become consolidated into mega corps. The shipping companies would consolidate. Every piece of the supply chain that the consumer doesn't have direct control over would consolidate. Would that really be that much better than the current situation?

You can't just count on markets to manage themselves. That's how we got into this mess.

[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

Honestly wouldn't count on it. Most small business owners at least in my area are huge Trump supporters or zionists. And even if they weren't, if everyone went there they'd just become the new Amazon. That's how capitalism works.

[-] snowdriftissue@lemmy.world 1 points 4 days ago

Fair enough. I guess I just don't have much faith that any profit seeking companies are not evil or won't become evil once they find success, so I don't really get any catharsis from moving from one to another over moral grounds. Which is why I try to focus on avoiding companies altogether when possible, instead going with community made alternatives (e.g. lemmy > reddit) which to me represent something more revolutionary. Any less fundamental changes than that generally feel pointless to me.

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submitted 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) by snowdriftissue@lemmy.world to c/unpopularopinion@lemmy.world

I'm kind of surprised that this seems to be an unpopular opinion around here, since I've always thought of Lemmy as being pretty leftist as opposed to liberal/capitalist, but there seems to be a base assumption here that voting with your dollar and trying to purchase the most "ethical" thing through the most "ethical" channels is worth the time and energy.

To me it has always seemed intuitive. I mean, what is the goal anyway? If the goal is to destroy the company you hate and replace it with the one you like (which btw you won't, for many reasons), you're doomed from the start because capitalism is gonna capitalism, and that brand you like and think is more ethical is at the end of a day, still a brand whose primary purpose is to make money, and they will put that above all else. If the goal is for the unethical company to make a smaller, more specific change, you're also doomed because the company you're silently protesting has no idea why you've stopped spending money with them, and likely doesn't care so long as others continue to spend.

To me, it seems more about making you feel good about yourself than bringing about real change. Which is further supported by the hostility that often comes with ethical consumerism towards people who don't engage with it - people who fundamentally agree with them but who apparently must be shunned for their purchasing decisions. Obviously I'm all up for humiliating Cybertruck owners or whatever, but there's a limit (looking at you, anti-Brave thread that pops up every month or so).

This brings me into the other problems with ethical consumerist rhetoric - it takes an inordinate amount of time because you have to research every company you engage with in every area to find the "most ethical" one, whatever that means, as well as the subsidiaries of those companies so you can recognize them in the wild. Many of these companies are monopolies or oligopolies and actively try to hide their subsidiaries. This time could be better spent toward much more productive activities that actually have the potential to bring about change. "More ethical" products also tend to be more expensive, and for this reason low income people typically can't engage in ethical consumerism. This money is likely also better spent donated toward organizations trying to bring about real sociopolitical/economic change.

I also draw a distinction between "vote with your dollar"/"ethical consumerist" rhetoric and well-organized boycotts with specific demands because these types of boycotts have actually been effective in the past, and it makes intuitive sense why. When you have a lot of organized people who together have lots of buying power asking for one specific thing, with the carrot of "if you do x specific thing, we will come back and start spending again," rather than the vague ethical consumerist position of "you're not ethical enough for me," all of a sudden it makes good financial sense to the company to make that specific change. The successful boycotts I've seen in the past have met both of these criteria.

Sorry this got to be so long and sorry if there are errors in it, I just kind of word vomited.

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A lot of content on the internet these days is censored to appease the algorithms and it can be hard to find raw content. For example I'm having trouble finding an uncensored version of Tyler Rogers' gentrified snack foods bit because all I can find is TikTok clips of it where they take out the bad words like kill and fuck. Any tips?

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Doo wop (lemmy.world)
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