Often, but not as a rule, progressive organizations age badly

I stand up for elections that are accurate and fair. If you look at my bio it’s my central belief in what needs to be done in American politics.

I cannot progress any leftest beliefs without accurate elections. So I’m ok if fair elections promote things I dislike very much. But they must be accurately counted.

I think I would respect many democrats more if they shared the same belief; but over the last few years I have become convinced that to be a card carrying Democratic Party member, one must be willing to turn a blind eye to how this country is not very democratic.

So yes, while democrats are better in many ways than republicans, both are harmful

• Trump — I wanna buy it
• China — no
• Trump — I’ll do something bad
• China — here is x million, go away and come back later
• Trump — yay

I think if one follows the same practices as what is implemented in the UK and France and other democracies, then the issues we speak of with American ballot counting will simply go away.

I would not trust any improvements over the ballot counting methods perfected over 200 years ago. Scantrons, as mentioned, obfuscate witnesses trying to spot issues, and anything else is simply worse.

The modern crop of voting machines are not that much better than the Diebold machines, its hard to tell due to everyone being locked out of investigating them. Most people do not understand that these systems can have the owners throwing the elections without the employees being any wiser. We do not know this is happening, but with the exit polls and other hints going on, I would rate is as probable.

I think my issues with voting machines are influenced by me making similar systems myself. But still, I have no idea why people think they are a good idea. I do not think its a matter of education, or lack of awareness, because I tried for a few years to educate people, and have talked to others who tried too. I think it boils down to some taboo against calling out cheating in the American culture, to be honest. But that is just my idea

Texas is ok. Yes, it has a corrupt bad government steeped in endless corruption. But the big cities are just regular North American cities in both outlook and being cosmopolitan in nature (there are dozens of ethnic groups that have a huge impact on Houston, for example). And most of the rural population is allergic to politics. There is a warming trend that is going to cause mass migrations out of Texas in the next two generations, though.

Reminds me of that series of novels that had a knight and dragon team up to fleece villages. Dragon would come in, terrify folks; then folks pay knight to kill dragon. Repeat a few dozen times

What is the most ethical thing to do here?

the hanging chads in FL

Those were really badly designed ballots. Look at France or the UK or Canada or Virginia etc for how they should be. No self respecting democracy should ever use a half mechanical design that fails like that.

What really made me angry later was that this was used to justify worse ways counting ballots. But my main issue was the shut down recounts. Busy was never properly elected, in my mind, and he made several problems for the USA that still have ramifications to this day.

His dad introduced modern computer voting. He used his contacts to form the first private voting companies we know today. And in my view his son was elected to Texas only because of that.

an expat now. Did you leave?

No, still in Texas. Unfortunately, during the gw era I was not interested in politics much. If I sound like an expat its because I am totally not on board with any of the major political movements

Edit: confused bushes

Most democracies use hand counted paper ballots. It works, and it’s fast enough, no need to improve it.

I don’t understand the American need to tinker with a good system.

That said, there is no way the majority of USA states will switch over to better counting systems. Some areas of the world will never be able to be truly democratic. The Americans have some weird system that works for their upper class, and the lower classes fully believe in it. This will not change in my lifetime

I think you have an assumption that the public can have a better understanding; and from that will create productive actions.

I think many understand perfectly well what is happening, and they see no way to empower themselves or others. At the same time others cannot not be taught anything.

Eh, it’s been a long journey for me. Years ago I was active in the Democratic Party in Texas, later I was a keyboard warrior who wrote millions of words, none of which did any good.

Now I just want fair elections; again writing words, now in a very small community, that also does no good.

But I’m done with the partisan stuff, and think both sides are equally out of their minds.

Democracies need accurate ballot counting, most states fail this. The primaries in both parties and the general elections have been tampered with for decades in many states. This has totally changed the character and leadership of both parties over the decades.

This is not a falsifiable argument because the only way to prove the above is wrong is to not use the election machines run by private organizations. While at the same time exit polls and stats hint of extreme ballot stuffing by these very companies. It’s not rocket science.

But, most commentators and social media participants in USA politics don’t care or want to know.

The ballot manipulation will allow democrats to win the midterms by a landslide, and most likely have the presidency again in 2028, and people who want paper ballots will be rendered mute again by most. Then next cycle the republicans will win again!

It’s a very long game, with each iteration moving more wealth away from the majority. And the only way to fix it is with paper ballots counted in front of witnesses and unlimited recounts allowed. Even then, it will take a long time to fix

My great granny was born in the 1800’s, she would have thought this very funny

These discussions always assume the elections are fair, which in many states is not true.

Perhaps instead of bickering about unimportant stuff ( at least to me they are not important), everyone griping should at least check to make sure their local elections at least meet United Nations specifications? Maybe they do, but depending where you are at, probably not.

I will never ever understand political discussions done by the majority of Americans.