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[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Seriousy?! We can have a Klowahkans series but not a Klingons or Vulcans one?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

While the VOY crew themselves still wear what you mentioned, we do see their Alpha quadrant counterparts are wearing First Contact Uniforms.

I'll revise to make it clearer who I'm talking about.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (2 children)

EDIT: Clarified that in Endgame, I was talking about alpha quadrant Starfleet officers.

For your first question, I'd agree with others that it was a possible future that just didn't happen in the Prime Timeline - there is a timeline out there where "All Good Things" didn't happen and so that's the future there. It was the future until Picard saw it.

As for your second, I would say it was still a false positive. It's just we didn't have enough Borg shenanigans in the TNG era alt future timelines for anyone to care about the difference, combined with Jack Crusher probably never being born.

For the uniforms, my overall theory is that what we saw as the the early 2380s uniform and mid-2380s badge design process started in the mid-to-late 2370's. The overall more peaceful nature of each of the three timelines with the alternate future uniform meant that either the TNG uniform (for "All Good Things" and "The Visitor") or First Contact uniform ("Endgame", for Alpha quadrant personnel) lasted into roughly the late 2380s or early 2390s. This gave more time for the concept for what would have been the prime 2380s uniform to develop before rolling out much later in about the mid 2390s, slightly changing the uniform shape and getting rid of the black area on top. This uniform design was very persistent against temporal interference, but it was no match for the timeline alterations by Voyager's early return, which caused a faster design cycle and early rollout for what became the early 2380s uniform and Starfleet uniforms in general.

I especially see it in this comparison:

Janeway 2404 vs Janeway 2383

Here's some deeper analysis if you want it, contained in spoilers to keep post length down (lots of nitpicking and rants about Klingon-Federation relations):

"All Good Things"

spoilerWithout a lot of temporal interference, this uniform arises. I think we can infer by Beverly still being in Starfleet that this is a relatively peaceful timeline to, meaning that influential uniform designers have lower change of death or being gripped by despair and making DS9-style uniforms.

There is the breakdown in Klingon relations, but that seems to be a common motif (like in "The Visitor"), and it's more of a cold war status than a Borg, Dominion, etc. kind of threat.

Otherwise, we don't have enough information on this timeline to firmly establish events. However, I infer this might be a timeline where the Dominion War was averted (or delayed) and Martok never became chancellor, as that event was sort of like another Narendra and if it didn't happen, a relationship deterioration with the Empire.

Evidence of this is in LD with Ma'ah's opinion that the Federation "earned its toduj" in the Dominion War, suggesting that event swayed his opinion on the Federation and likely others. This coculd be countered by the actions of Dorg and Bargh, showing that the views aren't universal. However, I think the relative level-headedness Bargh's fellow council members suggest that the brother's views are not a mainstream political view in the empire, at least in the 2380s.

(You could probably use STO stuff as counter to my argument, but I think the timeline of that game is motivated by a desire for a plot amenable to gameplay. I'm primarily going with alpha canon.)

As I said before, we can be certain that the "All Good Things" timeline was averted by Picard being aware of it, and that all timelines after are not that timeline.

"The Visitor"

spoilerThe fact that the uniform still pops up in this different timeline suggests that it's rather pervasive and takes a lot of temporal interference to get rid of it. Of note is the fact that it appears in 2422, 20-30 years later than either "All Good Things" or "Endgame", which might suggest this uniform becomes the 24th/25th century equivalent of the monster maroons.

Notably, Commander Nog appears with a TNG uniform and DS9 combadge... in 2389. This suggests that this timeline at least skipped First Contact, early 2380s, and mid-to-late 2380s uniforms, opting to keep the TNG uniform in for decades. This is kind of weird considering "Endgame", which I'll reconcile later. Anyhow, perhaps uniform designers had been toying with something like the prime early 2380s design; due to its longer time for development, when it was finally rolled out much later than prime, it manifested differently from its closest prime counterpart.

I think we can infer once again that the Dominion War was averted. For one, there's the reasons I provided above. I also think DS9 would sort of be sacred ground for the Klingons and it would feel almost wrong to them to take it outright if the Dominion War had happened like prime. The suggestion is further made by the fact that the Federation withdrew from DS9 in 2374, which would have been during the Dominion War in the prime timeline; this never would have happened with the wartime Alpha Quadrant alliance.

Additionally, we can tell the war never happened like prime because the Defiant was never destroyed - we can tell because they needed the ship to be basically the same to replicate the accident, and it was, judging by Jadzia's nostalgic reaction in the episode. If it were the second Defiant, there would have been differences as noted in DS9's "The Dogs of War".

Thus, basing on the first two timelines, it would seem like this uniform tends to arise when there are few mysterious threats, only regular ones.

"Endgame"

spoiler"Endgame" is unique in that it is the only timeline where the uniform appears and the Dominion War did happen, based on the chronology. What makes it weird is that this timeline did have the First Contact uniforms (for the Alpha quadrant personnel, not the Voyager crew, of course), meaning a possibly different design lineage for the future uniforms here.

To reconcile, it might be possible that in this timeline, the First Contact uniform roughly replaced what would have been the expanded life span of the TNG uniform (with error bars of a few years or so due to butterfly effect) instead of being slowly phased out in the early 2380s. Once again, the uniform concepts for what would have been the prime early 2380s uniforms were festering in the designers' heads as early as the mid-to-late 2370s and went through a similar development cycle to "The Visitor"'s timeline.

The state of Klingon relations in this episode is further evidence pointing to the role of the Dominion War in Federation-Klingon relations - B'Elanna's role and influence as a Klingon liason (based on Janeway's request) as well as Janeway's initially relatively easy dealings with Korath suggest relations are in a good state in this timeline with the Dominion War.

Despite the Dominion War happening, this timeline seems like it's also somewhat peaceful (only based on vibes, not canon analysis), considering that everyone on Voyager is either still in touch or dead - if this was one of those Picard-y timelines, at least would be a moody vigilante ex-Starfleet officer in some far off corner of the quadrant where no one can contact them.

I'd also say the anti-Borg/acquired Borg technology in this timeline might give an explanation for why the other timelines are so peaceful: the more organic technological development improved Fed security in all of them.

The fact that this uniform never appears again after this timeline suggests the early return of Voyager was the final straw for this uniform. We can't pinpoint exactly what happened, but I can think of a few different scenarios. The most likely one is something about Voyager's early return triggered a shorter design cycle of the future uniforms, leading instead to the early 2380s uniforms. Perhaps the early introduction of Borg defense tech to the prime timeline through Voyager's return caused a sudden leap followed by stagnation that either weakened Starfleet defenses in the long term, or Starfleet just wasn't ready to handle this stuff in 2378. Alternatively, maybe some key designers of that uniform got butterflied into a shuttle accident, or the timeline got so depressing that they decided to pump out DS9-looking uniforms instead.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

I agree he’s not the best Captain Kirk, but I did enjoy his performance in the time travel episode (might have just been the writing and La’an performance like you said, though).

Now what we need is more George Samuel leaving crumbs and annoying Spock energy. I mean, the dude’s only got 8 years or so live… Give our boy some screen time!

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Part of me is like, “Seriously! Mire multiverse stuff! Can we take a break, please?”, while the other half of me is like, “If it’s as good as LD or PRO multiverse stuff, I’ll take it!”

I am a bit worried about the fourth wall breaking stuff, but I wonder if they’re doing a Benny Russell “dreamer and the dream”-type thing, which might be fun.

The Clue episode looks fun. The trailer makes it look like this season is 75% quasi-holodeck episodes, which would be quite funny but is probably not the cases.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 month ago

Star Trek: The Search for Hemmer.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 month ago

"You will never attain the 24th level of awareness."

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 month ago (3 children)

I agree with you. Thinking on it, I wonder if that's only a season 1 premise and they'll eventually get beyond that.

Now what would make it really interesting (but they probably won't do) is if this comedy had a backdrop of a weakened postwar Dominion a.k.a this resort planet is in the Gamma Quadrant. It would be very interesting to use it to explore the new power structures that develop in the quadrant since the weakened power of the Founders. You could also showcase how Alpha quadrant polities interact with Dominion worlds (kind of like what we saw with the Karemma in LD "Hear All, Trust Nothing") - we have an episode with Federation diplomats at the resort negotiating a trade deal, for instance (this could even be our excuse to bring in an LD character or two).

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 month ago (5 children)

Unfortunately, it's not a Lower Decks continuation - I'm pretty sure that's the Tawny Newsome comedy about “Federation outsiders serving a gleaming resort planet find out their day-to-day exploits are being broadcast to the entire quadrant."

However, the involvement of Tawny Newsome makes me hopeful it will be good at least. I guess it also opens us to LD cameos at the bare minimum kind of like how they found a way to shoehorn Riker into pretty much every Trek show (I guess even technically DSC and SNW, if you count directing and/or Boimler doing the chair thing).

Admittedly, it would also be fun if they had a neo-Miranda class (perhaps we could call it Terrell class) Cerritos, but despite a similar role, it's not called the Cerritos A; it has an entirely new registry number because they somehow managed to forget about the original Cerritos.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

TLDR; I believe Generations is the best of the TNG films and easily in the top 5 classic films, even if the TNG film series as a whole falls short.

I admit that overall, I would call TOS films the better series of Trek films - Search for Spock and Final Frontier are probably the only ones I wouldn't rewatch, meaning 2/3 overall of the TOS films are actually enjoyable in my opinion. In comparison, I am not a fan of half the TNG movies (NEM and Insurrection).

However, I disagree with lumping all the Next Generation movies as "completely null"; First Contact was at least reasonably fun. My biggest complaint might be the Guinan snub for Barclay.

Meanwhile, I feel like Generations is the rare Star Trek film that really just feels like a 2 hour episode (with TMP and maybe Voyage Home the only two other ones like it). I enjoyed the mortality commentary (almost worth the sacrifice of Picard's entire family, but not quite), while nothing strikes me as more classically Star Trek than campily choreographed fight scenes between a bunch of old men. I also personally enjoyed Data's arc - I feel like they made sure when it got annoying, it was purposeful, and they dialed it back right when they needed to.

Overall, I don't think it's fair to lump the first two TNG films into the bottom 5 like their later counterparts (which do deserve it); Generations probably joins Voyage Home for my favorite Trek films to rewatch.

Anyhow, have a wonderful evening. 🖖

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (4 children)

I love Generations. Now disliking V is something I could get behind.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 month ago

Bem better come apart, or this one will make sure someone else does. Laugh

 

A challenge for everyone here: come up with one favorite inverted version of a TMBG song or album.

Mine: Short Short Business Week

 

Seriously, though. In my opinion, V is by far the worst TOS film, if not the worst of any Star Trek film (Yes, including Kelvin), yet it somehow nailed the ending.

Not to say I hated V that much. I think there's some charm of Kirk, Spock, and Bones breaking out the brig, but the plot is catastrophically bad. I was also annoyed with that one scene with Uhura where they have her seduce some acolytes, which I feel is a disgrace to the character.

 

I stumbled upon this the other day and was a bit surprised that someone else on this planet both knows what The Prisoner is and is a fan of TMBG.

 

I think the Vau N'Akat seen in Prodigy have a lot of "biological and technological distinctiveness" to be added to the collective's own. My question is whether or not the Borg could take advantage of the Vau N'Akat's abilities, and whether they'd be all that helpful.

For instance, could assimilated Vau N'Akat use their heirloom powers to manipulate materials in order to pump out at least the shells of Borg Cubes like nobody's business?

I think this depends on how heirloom material actually works and is made. Its utility to the Borg probably depends on whether or not it's a limited resource or actually some sort of alloy that could be constructed anywhere in the galaxy.

In truth, we can't know that, as in the current state of canon Vau N'Akat lore, it's basically just space magic to us. If I had to take a wild guess, I have two theories:

  1. Maybe Vau N'Akat have detachable nanobot-esque cells that communicate with the brain over an electromagnatic signal, allowing the quick assembly of structures at a relatively precise level, especially with the one specific material. (Perhaps all that blue dust stuff that happens at death are these cells freaking out as communication ceases and, for lack of orders, devouring the body.)
  2. The Vau N'Akat have organs that essentially very precisely accelerate exchange particles. (This theory makes the above one seem comparatively more plausible.)

Another question is whether or not Vau N'Akat drones could use all that "your will is mine" stuff to aid the assimilation of other Vau N'Akat and/or create one super drone.

Going with theory 1, maybe the "Your will is mine" stuff is actually a weak ability to lend extra cells to the desired person that builds up when a lot of people are doing it, strengthening healing and immune responses as well as any use of that person's detached cells, thus explaining that whole scene.

If this is the mechanic by which it works (and assimilation doesn't somehow bork the mental facilities for this), this could be a very powerful ability for the Borg. It almost sounds too powerful, as those cells could be used as essentially an assimilation virus or a bioweapon, which I think would break the balance of power in the ST universe in a way that I think writers really wouldn't want to.

Overall, as I have said before, just as I find it very fun to try to theorize how the Vau N'Akat work, I also find it very difficult due to both its status as a very new species and their general uniqueness (almost un-Trekiness, not to insult them) as a species. I do think Prodigy does some good things with the Vau N'Akat, and it's nice to have a species that's a bit more than just forehead ridges and a fatal flaw (if they even bother with the forehead ridges - looking at you, Betazoids). However, similar to some of the complaints with Prodigy in general, I can't deny that the space magic aspect feels more Star Wars than I can say I like in Star Trek.

So, what are your thoughts?

 

Overall, I see Badgey as accidentally being the most sane one there and being a story of how sanity fares in an insane universe.

Here's my lore for Badgey and the ISS Cerritos (based on the IDW Mirror Universe and assuming that the mirror universe in Prodigy is the same timeline as IDW's mirror universe): I kind of imagine the story as the inverse, where the brutal Rutherford sends his Orion slave girl~1~ to test the simulation, which is a low gravity battle situation. Combined with Tendi's talent, the brutality and immorality scares Badgey enough that when the safeties are off, he gives his father a choice: help him take down the empire or face death at his hands. Rutherford immediately goes in for the kill, and the chase begins.

In No Small Parts, Rutherford seemingly convinces Badgey that the Pakleds are the greater evil, but tries to destroy the Cerritos with the Pakled ship, leaving his father to watch. Rutherford tries to detonate the warp core, but Shaxs, really wanting to do it, throws Rutherford into space (where he is beamed away) and detonates the warp core.

Finally, in A Few Badgeys More, Rutherford starts by trying to appeal to Badgey's hatred, which splits off into Mad-gey. He then appeals to the personal benefits Badgey will get, who splits off into profit-ey and is killed by Badgey. Finally, Badgey ascends and has the painful epiphany of how little good there is in the universe. He decides he will destroy the universe and recreate one prime among all the others, but notes the end might not be immediately apparent due to time crap.

1: On another note, my story for mirror D'Vana Tendi is as follows.

The Orions had a strong democratic socialist tradition for a long time until the Terran Empire conquered them. The Alliance later freed them from Terran rule, but did not allow the Orions their governmental tradition. Thus, the Tendi family became the leader of a secret independence movement to return Orion to its former ideals. This resistance continued even after Orion fell back under Terran rule in 2379 as part of the Terran fleet resurgence of the past few years.

With the Tendi family, D'Vana was known as Liberator of the Winter Constellations and was supposed to bring the revolution to a new age. However, she was known to be selfish and impulsive.

This came to a head when the Orion Resistance was going to attempt a major operation in 2380. Feeling it was hopeless, D'Vana made a deal with a Terran agent to sell out her rebellion in return for riches.

Like a true Terran, though, the agent lied, and the ISS Cerritos, assigned there on second plunder, took her and much of the rebellion as slaves... dismally easily.

Her sister, D'Erika, however, escaped and pledged not just to continue the revolutionary cause as the new Liberator of the Winter Constellations, but to get revenge on her double-crossing sister.

Meanwhile on the Cerritos, D'Vana was distributed to Billups. However, Billups preferred to work on improving the destructiveness of the phasers or watch his underlings squeal in the agony booth, so he decided to let Rutherford do whatever the heck he wanted with her. Thus, technically, she is not Rutherford's slave, but Billups, but ends up being forced to spend most of her time on the ship with Rutherford.

129
submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

Edit: Corrected spelling of Torres's rank.

Based off a moment from VOY:Prototype that I just facepalmed and chuckled at, roughly around the 34:45 mark. The first two frames are pulled from around there, and the last four are just various images pulled from online.

 

I just love the vibes so much.

I don't know how I could have survived an age without the 1999 studio leaks.

87
Prisencolinensinainciusol (startrek.website)
submitted 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
 

As anyone who watched Prodigy knows, the main characters + Chakotay end up on the ISS Voyager A during some accidental multiverse hopping due to time shenanigans.

It could be argued that the mirror universe is just a random variant of it in the multiverse where the Terran Empire is still prominent.

However, I noticed two things: Terran Admiral Janeway refers to the fleet as "The New Terran Fleet", maybe suggesting a success for the Terran rebellion.

This is further supported by the fact that her combadge is the same as (and her uniform plausibly an evolution of) the ones seen in the various IDW mirror universe comics, the earliest of which is from 2017.~1~

The plot of these comics tries to fit in with the info from DS9, revealing (in its own continuity, at least) that the Terran Empire still existed during DS9 but had been reduced to the Sol System, with most people outside it not even realizing it still existed. The comics chronicle the resurgence of the empire and the rise and fall of Picard.

Is it possible that the timeline we see in Prodigy is actually the same mirror universe in DS9 and that the IDW mirror universe comics have been semi-canonized?

1: Coincidentally but not relevant to the question, the ISS Cerritos shown in the holodeck in LD:I, Excretus also uses these badges, but not the typical mirror universe uniforms, although it could be those are just the mirror Cali Class uniforms.

 

Do any of you guys also headcanon that the bonzai plant that gets eaten in LD is the same one Boimler got from the replicator that one episode?

 

While responding to a comment in a crappost I made on Risa, my mind developed a few thoughts on how Seven was impacted overall.

First of all, here are the facts:

  • Seven was assimilated at 6 years old.
  • She was in a maturation chamber for 5 years (2350-2355).
  • She was in the collective until 2374, when she was 30.

Now, my questions:

  • What is 7's biological age? In other words, how far does a Borg drone need to be matured to function in the collective? Equivalent of a 16? 20? 25? How much do Borg age while they are assimilated?
  • What are the psychological impacts on Seven's mind, and to what extent are they permanent? To what extent is she emotionally equivalent to a child? Having such a level of isolation from humans would obviously (and clearly did) have a major impact on Seven's mind. However, Seven improves a lot in some senses by Picard. Is it possible that Borg nanoprobes somehow maintain neuroplasticity in a way that allows Seven to be able to adapt in a way a human who have become a ferile child at 6 might not be able to?
 

I barely have time as it it. Please, don't make me do the writers, too!

Also, if you actually look into the graph, note that data points have X axis error bars of +-1.

For those who don't want to open Desmos:

Edit: Added the Harry spike for that timeline where he had a kid with Tom's daughter, as well as a gap for Neelix and Tuvok during the whole Tuvix thing.

Another Edit: Fixed the line connecting episodes 69 and 70 for Neelix.

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