GenZedong

Fascism is just ultra-capitalism, and they loveeeeee capitalism, that's why capitalists allow it to exist.

Then, a broader question, can there be hate crime but not racism against white people?

I think the distinction between "hate crime" and systemic racism might be useful, but it discounts the numerous "hate crimes" that forms a natural part of the oppressed peoples experience, like Indigenous people in the Americas or Chinese people in Southeast Asia.

I’m unsure if it really means anything to say that white people ‘should be oppressed’ because as soon as that becomes a possibility, there would be no such thing as whiteness, which requires a hierarchy of which it is at the top.

That is what I am trying to say in my original comment but just with rhetorical flourishes.

Alright I will try to answer all of your questions to the best of my ability and understanding.

First I am going to jump right to the quotes, I had no intention of making it seem like I was refering to the People of The United States as white, as you correctly pointed out there are many races in The United States and the quote was made in reference to all of them, and I at the time I used it did not think about it being interpreted in a different context. I was using it in context of Cuba was collinized by the United States, then once it got its freedom got put under a blocade that can be defined (and I do) as genocidal. There where over 600 attempts by the United States on Castro's life, there is no doubt that The United States is the opressive force on the nation, but even then, there is no hatred being spread or cultivated about the people, going so far as to say “Once demagoguery and lies are definitely exposed and defeated, the world will find excellent allies in the American people”. Again this is not a one to one comparison but showing that, a nation that has been under constant siege by an oppressive force is able to keep from demonizing all the people their, and they do it through understanding the lies, and showing their revolutionary spirit. I ment it only to show that in atleast one AES country hate for the opressive force does not trickle down into a group the class also is a part of IE the people of the United States.

As for the Che Quote it was meant in reference to oppression is injust in all its forms, and we should not be advocating anyone oppress anyone else. I agree that sporting the status quo is unjust, and supporting the ideas of races is unjust, That being said hating or oppressing someone based on something they are born with, and cannot change is also unjust.

I will be completly honest I do not 100% understand what you are asking with the higherarchy question however I will do my best to answer it, and you can tell me if I did not understand it. As we know race does not really exist, and so because of that it is always a moving target, and thoughout history, white has been termed to mean the people with the most power, and I understand that historical context, and understand that reluctance to mark that box. The argument that prompted the clarification is one more so about is, even with the hierarchy is unabashed hatred due to this ok, is the call for genocide, ok, and no, as mentioned above, it does not matter if it is for something a person cannot control, it should not be an object of hate, as we saw the other day.

I mean I am not a lawer, and so I cannot get into the nitty gritty on what counts as a hate crime, so again I will try my best but please understand I am no expert in this area, I am going to say it is much harder to find a pure example of a hate crime to "white people" than it is to any other group because often it will be a group fighting for their freedom, but it also is not impossible.

Your race is normally something you are born with, again its not being a real thing means that the powers at be can redefine, as we see with Ukrainians now, or Irish in the past, but it is still a thing that you are assigned when you are born, you cannot change it, and is not something someone should deserve hate over, again any arguing we spend over this only ends to divide us, we cannot let it do that. We cannot form an effective coalition if we divide ourselves.

I am and this clarification of the rules is in no way an attempt to "uphold whiteness" I think that race agian, does not really exist and is a silly thing that was made up, that being said it not being a real thing does not mean that it does not have a real effect on people, or that they cannot change it themselves, and not a valid reason for hate. I think that we should move beyond race, because it is a thing that does not really exist and is a silly thing that was made up.

I hope I answered all your questions, please do comment below or reach out if you have any more or if I missed something.

If that is what you where refering to as self-flaggelation I feel like you are underselling what happened to a large extent. I agree whole heatedly with you that self hatred and focusing on race, will get us no where but farther divided, and will keep us in our capitalist system as we are unable to unify arm in arm. And that is why we felt it necessary to clarify the rule in reguards to racism and racist comments.

I agree it is only natural for the oppressed to dislike and hate their oppressors, it is the human condition and I can not wrong anyone for doing so or feeling that way. I feel like the statement touched on this point mentioning "Having low expectations of people in the imperial core is understandable for someone in the Global South, but it’s better to be specific. Saying “I’m racist against white people” when you mean “I don’t trust the average person in ” is going to cause misunderstandings". We cannot reasonably expect to form a international group, or dismantle the concept of race when we are going around saying things like "we SHOULD be racist aganst 'white people'!" We cannot say in one breath to be "racist" against "white people" and in the next say that is because it cannot exist, these 2 statements are in direct contradiction with each other. If you where to ask me, I think the idea of race is silly, and should be done away with, but we do not get to that point by continuing a circle of hate, or by pretending that right now this genuinely made up and fluid concept, does not truly effect people in a real and tangible way.

When talking about reverse racism, we have no illusions that there is no systemic structure of racism against white people, as a whole specific group does not exist, however this does not stop individual prejudice against white people, as we saw in the incident that caused this clarification of the rules.

We are in no way dismissing or understating the damages done by the global north, onto the global south, and an individuals hatred of a group of people does not some how equate to the centuries of colonization, exploitation.

you cannot say "...'white people' should really be the ones oppressed (lol)." and then when it is brought up that that is not what we fight for, and any opression is an injustice, we fight for the working class, we fight for the liberation of the opressed, seem suprised anyone would take you at your word then back track with "What would oppression of white people even entail? It doesn’t make sense. It’s all rhetoric." Your advocation was for opressing a group of people, not only does this play right into the fears of reaction.

I feel you misunderstand the reason for my inclusion of the quote. Cuba has been colonized by the United States, and when it broke free of the United States almost immedatly the United States put a genocidal blockade on the island nation. The United States sent over 600 assasination attempts to Castro. The United States being one of the most propogandized people in the world, does not know Cuba as anything more than an athoritarian dictatorship, and only been told stories from the Borgiouse class that flead Cuba and the US State Department, to the point where Havana Syndrome was able to be accepted without much pushback from the general public. Even in these situations Fidel said "In Cuba we have never cultivated hatred against the American people or blamed them for the aggression perpetrated by the governments of that country. That would have run contrary to our political doctrines and our internationalist conscience, both well-proven throughout many years, and increasingly rooted in our ideas." Even with Cuba they have not and will not cultivate or hold hatred to the American People, and yes it is because of their political ideals, that being Marxism-Leninism, and their International Conscience. I would like to believe that all of us here strive for the same goals, and we cannot acomplish them by hating a person based on their race. I agree that to complete their goal we must reject racism and capitalism, hence the clarification on the rule.

as with your last point I agree that race is not a real thing, and so cannot be biological, and because race not being a real thing, the definitions are not consistent, and fusing on this made up division, only devides us, and does not in any way unify us, again the reason for the clarification of the rules.

communists should stop using specifically usian terminology

Exactly. This can be probably not be stated enough.