this post was submitted on 26 Jan 2024
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Me after creating a meme and starting a political debate on memes sub "what have i done".I HATE MY CREATION for the record.

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[–] [email protected] 99 points 9 months ago (4 children)

See those jackasses with swastikas, they hate you. They’re the furthest right. See the people with hammers and sickles or black flags and maltovs? They hate each other almost as much as they hate the rich. They’re the furthest left.

In reality the right wing wants lower taxes, more police, more military, less corporate legislation, and to regulate your sexual and medical decisions every moral panic. They also tend to vote how their preacher tells them.

The left wing wants to regulate businesses, fund public works and social services, try to create a more equal society (the right wants hierarchy), and generally supports freedom except when used for bigotry. We also like unions. The further left you go the more you like unions.

Obligatory Wilhoit: “Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.”

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago

The left generally wants lower taxes too, just for different people. The left thinks the poorest should pay no taxes, while the right thinks the richest should pay no taxes. (Obviously I’m being hyperbolic, but that’s generally how it plays out.)

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (10 children)

What if I want no taxes for the lower class lower taxes for the middle class and small business but much higher taxes on the upper class and large corporations, a very strong military, less but stronger corporate regulation with more teeth, to fund public works and social services with the taxes we bring in, a free and equal society with no hierarchical systems or bigotry, freedom of speech and strong privacy laws with certain restrictions on speech (calls to violence, etc...), very strong unions, a near complete elimination of wall street, and a fair justice system that doesn't target minorities as prey? Also, guns are fine for self defense in my opinion. Which side do I fall on?

Edit: So if you will read my posts below I talk about how going against groupthink just makes you enemies of the group. Then the group started down voting me down below. I'm really not worried about fake internet points. I just want to make sure that everyone that downvoted me is well aware that my point is well and truly proven. A difference of opinion is not welcome. Even, and especially, if that opinion is, "Stop letting the group think for you. Examine each issue as a separate issue and make fair and reasoned decisions."

[–] [email protected] 43 points 9 months ago (3 children)
[–] [email protected] 20 points 9 months ago

It's depressing how many people would be more leftist if America didn't systemically demonize anything left of mid-right. Instead people feel various ways that Would push them further left (such as pro choice in this image) and instead come up with these logical loops then keep voting Republican because that's just how they vote.

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[–] [email protected] 28 points 9 months ago (5 children)

What if I want no taxes for the lower class lower taxes for the middle class and small business but much higher taxes on the upper class and large corporations

Left.

a very strong military

Typically right, but plenty of examples of marxist-leninist states with strong militaries, such as the USSR or China. And on the less authoritarian side you have the YPG in rojava who was very effective at fighting the Islamic state.

but stronger corporate regulation with more teeth

This one's a little confusing, would probably need more clarification.

to fund public works and social services with the taxes we bring in

Left.

a free and equal society with no hierarchical systems or bigotry, freedom of speech and strong privacy laws with certain restrictions on speech (calls to violence, etc...), very strong unions, a near complete elimination of wall street, and a fair justice system that doesn't target minorities as prey?

Left-libertarian/anarchist.

Also, guns are fine for self defense in my opinion.

At least in America, the guns issue is typically viewed as a left vs. right issue, but there's plenty of folks on the far left that are in favor of guns (socialist rifle association, redneck revolt, John Brown gun club, etc).

Karl Marx even has an often cited quote on guns:

Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary

Which side do I fall on?

Pretty much left. You're certainly left of the American Democrats. Pretty much the only thing stopping you from being a full on leftist is you don't seem to be opposed to capitalism itself. Therefore, I'd say most of your positions sound like they fall under social democracy.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago

I think you may want to look into syndicalism actually.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Almost left wing, could be completely left wing depending on how strong you want unions to be, ie do you still want Capitalism or are you full-on syndicalist.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Pretty leftist my dude. Embrace it

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Is it even possible to describe the left end the right and not make it sound like the right are the bad guys?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago

Not if you're trying to be honest

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[–] [email protected] 46 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Bro, the left and right are originally French, not American, and they're applied worldwide throughout various systems.

Long story short, in the original National Assembly in 1789, people with similar opinions ended up befriending each-other and sitting nearby during the session, so at one point you had all those who thought the revolution ought to go further (give more rights to more people, decrease the power of the king or outright depose him, etc...) sitting on the left, and all those who thought the revolution had gone to far already and ought to slow down sitting on the right.

Of course, by this metric, the very concept of a republic is far left, but the idea is that no matter what system you're in, once it's established enough, wanting to maintain the status quo is being a centrist, wanting change that puts more power in the hands of common people is left wing, and opposing such changes or wanting to undo them to "restore order", often concentrating power in fewer hands, is right wing.

This "power" I speak of was at the beginning just political power, but through the 19th century, the focus shifted towards economic power. Therefore, since the late 19th century, a right wing policy a policy that favors the rich, and a left wing policy one that places restrictions on the rich and welfare policy for the poor to decrease inequality. This is why liberals were initially left wing, but neoliberalism is now mostly regarded as a wing ideology. These are policies that want a weaker state, but more rights/powers for rich individuals.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I am very surprised that there is only one legitimate reference to the original coining of these terms from the beginning of the French Revolution so far in this thread asking what these terms mean.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

It's not exactly relevant to a modern conversation, even if the history does highlight the Overton Window and how being the "left" or "right" is still different from being a "leftist" or a "right winger" as left or right wing is usually relative to local politics and "leftist" vs "right winger" refers to broad ideologies.

[–] [email protected] 28 points 9 months ago (1 children)

If in America then it's all right wing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

my biggest pet peeve in the world is when people equate liberalism (a right-wing ideology) with the left, solely because the american baseline is so far right compared to europe. the closest shot the US have had of pivoting to proper left-wing is bernie sanders (at least as far as i'm aware, and i'm too scared of further rotting my brain by consuming more american politics)

[–] [email protected] 18 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Some people enjoy walking on the wings of passenger planes. For some reason Americans are really hostile about which wing is better to stand on while in flight.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Ah good for them . I personelly prefer sitting in the centre to balance everything .

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

You like to sit in the middle of the alley? I prefer a seat personally...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

It's actually a pretty good metaphor. People sitting on the left side and the right side of the plane are actually taking a seat whereas people sitting in the aisle are just in the fucking way.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (3 children)

Left wingers want collective ownership of the Means of Production, right wingers want individual ownership of the Means of Production.

What follows from that are generally a bunch of interconnected, intersectional views. Leftists tend to oppose hierarchy, rightists tend to support hierarchy.

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[–] [email protected] 15 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I can't stop recommending the youtube channel what is politics. Seriously: it's perfect if you're represented by this meme.

It's a simple series of videos that explains in digestible terms what right and left are and why everyone should care.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

what is politics

Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.

I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 9 months ago (4 children)

There's a hockey joke in there too.

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[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

It depends if you're watching them from the front or the back. So it can be quite confusing.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

Left wing and right wing are like political vibes. They only make sense when you have more understanding of what the issues are. What they mean can change over time.

I think it's easier to understand what the individual issues are and why people want them or don't want them. Then you need to figure out what your ideology is and pick what things you want to support to further your political goals.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago

Political "debates" are useless, but I always like to watch different conceptions from different countries.

When I see USA politics right-wingers have some speeches and actions that left-wingers have in my home country and vise-versa.

Like, leftwingers in my country usually attack a former rightwing president because he supposedly fomented immigration, specially illegal immigration. (Although, here rigwingers also have more hate against the inmigrant, just like US) 1 (sorry for the language, didn't find an english version of it)

Or a former leftwing president that mobilized our army to Haiti to protect their democracy 2

Same with labels: In US "liberal" is a left wing label, in my country is a righ wing one.

Same apply in other countries, like I see Spanish news when "republicans" are the radical ones, usually left-wing, because they oppose monarchy, and the "republican" flag is a left-wing symbol for spaniards.

That's why political labels are pretty useless too. Republican means literal nazi or revolutionary against monarchy depending where you are lol.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Those who wank off with left hand are left wingers and those that wank off with right hand are right winger. And none of them are gonna care about your privacy or freedom.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

that helps, i guess im in the center then, since i care about the privacy and freedom

[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (2 children)

You're probably better off not knowing. This stuff never makes a person happy.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

"you're better off not understanding systems of power that have a huge impact on your lives"

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