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[–] 143 points 2 years ago* (8 children)

LOL, if you think that's bad, wait 'til you find out that the suburbs can't afford roads, either!

Car-dependency is a fiscal disaster on both the micro- and macro-scale, let alone everything else catastrophic about it.

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  • [–] 59 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    It is also a disaster on an environmental scale, and not just due to emissions.

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  • [–] 24 points 2 years ago

    For sure! I could write a novel about "everything else catastrophic about it" (and probably have by now, if you concatenate my previous Lemmy and Reddit comments on the subject), but that would distract from my point that the headline "Americans can no longer afford their cars" applies in more ways than one.

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    [–] 94 points 2 years ago (6 children)

    Cars have always been relatively expensive to own and operate and the American way, unfortunately, has been to take out lines of credit in order to purchase vehicles they could just barely afford.

    It's insane to think about but the average car payment for a new vehicle in 2023 was $726 and the average loan term is nearly 70 months!

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  • [–] 70 points 2 years ago (18 children)

    I've always lived by two rules when it comes to vehicles:

    1. Never buy new. Buy approximately two years old used low mileage

    2. If I can't afford the vehicle on a three year note, I can't afford the vehicle

    Additionally, always secure third party financing and have it in your back pocket, but don't tell the dealership that part until absolutely necessary. They may try to match it, but their fine print has always had catches it in that make it a worse option in my experience.

    I'm not sure if these rules will work going forward as prices seem to have doubled in the past three years, and I'm loathe to ponder how purchase is getting replaced by subscribe.

    My current car is ten years old with 110k miles on it. I keep it super maintained because I can't stomach the thought of my next buying experience.

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  • [–] 37 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)

    As a young adult who wanted to avoid debt, my rules were somewhat similar

    1. Car must be used, for sale by private seller. Avoids dealership fees, warranty fees etc.

    2. If I cannot buy it in full, in cash that day, I cannot afford it.

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago

    I bought my first car on credit. After my last payment, I diverted that money into dedicated savings for the next car. Kept me from lifestyle creep and paid myself interest instead of the bank.

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  • [–] 10 points 2 years ago

    The sweet spot for me was buying cars in roughly the 6 year rage. Specifically Toyotas and Hondas. My last car was an '06 Accord and it was a fantastic car. Affordable to buy, no bullshit, cheap to repair and required repairs rarely, drove great, solid interior. I would have kept driving it for another 5-10 years easy if I hadn't moved to a country/city where driving is totally unnecessary.

    My buddy bought it off me and did some minor things to it and is still happily driving as his daily commuter right now.

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    [–] 89 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    Stop buying suvs and trucks. Buy compacts and small sedans. As those markets erode it just makes everything worse.

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  • [–] 73 points 2 years ago* (10 children)

    I'm a multi tradesman and I run about in a 1.2L Korean shitbox with a trailer when I need it

    Same tradesman in the US apparently needs a 6L V12 pick-up simply because of his micropenis? Yeah thanks for the pollution Brad/Chad/Tad whatever

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  • [–] 8 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    He isn't a tradesman. He is either an office worker or unskilled labor.

    The only practical use I have ever seen in my life for those oversized pickups is in South East Asia I rode on one that had been converted into van to go up and down this shit road into the mountains. Moving people. So unless you make a living loading up 8 people at a time to bring them up a terrifying grade mountainside you don't need a vehicle like that.

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  • [+] 70 points 2 years ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)
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    [–] 67 points 2 years ago (7 children)

    Couldn't buy a house, so now we have to rent. Now that we can't afford rent, might as well live out of a car. Now cars are too expensive, might as well live out of a cardboard box.

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    [–] 58 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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    [–] 49 points 2 years ago (3 children)

    If we'd always been accounting for all the actual costs of cars, including externalities, most people would have never been able to afford them, we'd recognize them as the very costly luxeries they actually are, and not have completely dismantled our ability to live without them in every city except NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC, and San Francisco.

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  • [–] 23 points 2 years ago (2 children)

    You could say that about everything. If you would account for all actual cost no one would fly, eat steaks, own 2 TVs or change phones every 2 years either. We would buy things that last 10-20 years and replace them only when they are broken. As we used to...

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  • [–] 22 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Slippery slope aside, I think reducing unnecessary consumerism would be beneficial for our most vuneral populations. There would be a lower barrier of entry into the economy and more resources would be available at a lower cost for people who cannot afford them

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  • [–] 19 points 2 years ago

    Oh, I wasn't making a slippery slope argument. I meant that this is what should happen. We exported most of the devastating impact on the environment and the terrible working conditions to developing countries so that we can enjoy tons of crap we don't really need. If things we buy would reflect the actual costs we would have to limit how much we consume. Of course no one would like it.

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  • [–] 9 points 2 years ago (1 child)

    Well, it's a mixed bag. There have been absolutely incredible advances in efficiency that do enable a lot of things to genuinely be much cheaper and accessible than they used to be, but some of that is also just the ability to throw external costs on other people (climate change, for instance). This is why things like carbon taxes are so strongly supported by economists.

    Steak, for instance, is hugely subsidized by how little farmers have to pay for water, along with other government benefits. Flying has environmental costs, but those are reasonably quantifiable and, per flight and per passenger, not that insane as far as I understand.

    I do think consumer electronics are a bit of a different story though. Yes, cheap labor plays a huge role there, but those labor costs aren't completely divorced from reality; the fact of the matter is that east Asian labor is actually chap. Ocean shipping and modern production plants are insanely efficient, though again climate costs need to be captured.

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    [–] 38 points 2 years ago

    Americans can no longer afford their cars

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  • [+] 37 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (2 children)
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    [–] 32 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) (1 child)

    It's self inflicted. Americans don't buy inexpensive new cars. Now everything new is targeted at upper middle class and financing is expensive + pent up demand from COVID is exacerbating the issue pushing used buyers into the new market.

    But you can still buy a Mitsubishi for under 20k and an Impreza for 22k. People don't.

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  • [+] 9 points 2 years ago (2 children)
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  • [–] 15 points 2 years ago* (1 child)

    not to mention insurance costs and taxes

    used vehicles cost nearly same in most cases and in poor condition

    yes let us blame trucks not the $7.50 minimum wage and the inflation and what have yous

    biden and electric vehicle are not the jesus of our times

    going to take a lot to make travel affordable again and on that note the more traveling costs the less people do it and the less they travel the more stuck in the state they are at they become

    way more than prohibitively expensive vehicles here this is a means to keep citizens in place and poor

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  • [–] 11 points 2 years ago

    Y-….you guys used to be able to afford cars?

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