Suppose there was a comment thread containing a back-and-forth conversation between a kbin.social user and a lemmy.world user. What would a user on beehaw.org see, given that they are federated with one but not the other?
this post was submitted on 15 Jun 2023
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Users on Beehaw would not see anything from Lemmy.world. If it's still federated with Kbin, then they would see that content.
Likewise, anyone on Lemmy.world would not see content or be able to access communities from Beehaw.
So for a Beehaw user, would they see all of the the Kbinner's comments and it would look as if they were talking to themselves? Or would they only see the top level Kbinner comment and nothing else (due to their instance not seeing the Beehaw comment and therefore not seeing children of that comment either)?
Beehaw can pull in content from other instances, but users from those instances cannot comment or post back to Beehaw. If you were interacting with content coming from Beehaw on a different instance, in practice it would feel like you're shadow-banned as nobody on Beehaw would be able to see or reply to you.
So given participant 1, 2. 1 is on .world, 2 is on kbin
P1: message a
P2: message b
P1: message c
P2: message d
Would a beehaw user see just messages b and d? What would it look like they are replying to?
Would they see the comment chain at all as it was started by P1?
There's two different scenarios, a community not hosted on beehaw:
they wouldn't see the chain at all.
On a community hosted on beehaw:
Message a would only exist on world's local copy of the thread, nobody not on world can see it. (This local copy is also not getting updated by anyone not on world.)
Basically, the true thread exists on the instance that hosts the community. Defederation cuts off communication with one server. If it's the server that hosts it, it's a lot more severe.
AFAIK, it depends on where this community originated in which this conversation happens.
- If it's a beehaw community: lemmy.world users can only talk to other lemmy.world users
- If it's a lemmy.world community: beehaw users can only talk to other beehaw users
- If it is hosted anywhere else: I give up, I cannot make sense of it.
Please notify me if someone knows the answer. I tried to understand it using this great explanation with examples.
I also wonder what would technically happen if beehaw users could not see comments from defederated instances in other instances. How would they see a back and forth? Would they see the same level of indentation? Would they see other users from federated instances replying to comments which do not exist?
So for those who know this better, should Lemmy Kbin users look for alternative to these communities (games/gaming for me)
You should be looking at multiple communities on the same topic just as a matter of course. Single mega-communities really aught to be discouraged, since they actually crush meaningful engagement (most posts don't ever get seen, most comments don't ever get seen, etc.)
If you follow multiple communities on the same topic, you can get the same kind of constant content stream -- if that's what you're concerned about -- while also actually having your contributions noticed.
Plus, not having single points of failure is the lesson everyone should be taking away from Twitter and Reddit.
I don't believe any kbin instances have been de-federated by beehaw...
Yeah, but if people were intentionally being trolls, it stands to reason that they'll hop on the next available open registration site and begin their shenanigans there, getting us banned too.
From what I've seen, for the most part the KBin magazines have been great, but we've definitely got a few people that I've seen that might intentionally start harassing trans people for instance and if they make lives difficult for the beehaw mods, we might get banned too just by association.
Open signups aren't novel on the fediverse, lots of places have them. The problem is having them without following up and banning problematic users... but yes I expect that if stricter instance-wide moderation doesn't happen this instance will end up being defederated by most of the fediverse (with mastodon at least that seems to be the norm).
I'm hoping moderation has been been lacking because Ernest is just overwhelmed with the amount of load, and that it is fixed soon, if not I'll end up moving on once admins start defederating it (probably to another kbin instance).
Not necessarily. From what I understand, it's about lemmy/kbin not vetting users. Because they were a a more heavily moderated community (by design) it's harder for them to keep that standard with other federated instances. Instead of trying to combat the population increase platforms have received, they defederated while the "riff raff" gets sorted out. If they are willing to re-federate in the future, I'm sure they'll be back. It's just the influx of users makes it harder for their small team to moderate content.
This is how federation works, though. It's by design. If you are wanting to see that content, you are able to move to a different instance (or even beehaw, if they are still taking applications), or to one that is still federated with them.
Kbin? I thought they were only defederating from lemmy.world and sh.itjust.works?
AFAIK it is only lemmy.world and SJW, but I mentioned kbin because it was another instance that was receiving a lot of new users along with those other platforms.
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