this post was submitted on 17 Dec 2023
507 points (96.9% liked)

World News

39385 readers
2262 users here now

A community for discussing events around the World

Rules:

Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.


Lemmy World Partners

News [email protected]

Politics [email protected]

World Politics [email protected]


Recommendations

For Firefox users, there is media bias / propaganda / fact check plugin.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/media-bias-fact-check/

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

As a Finn I say this is fine. Every military resource that is tied down and not raping and destroying Ukraine is net positive.

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 100 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (10 children)

Having to constantly communicate in abusive opposite-world ideas must be tiring. The notion that NATO is out to invade Russia or something is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard.

[–] [email protected] 75 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For real... like Mr. Putin sir, we don't want Russia. In fact, I must insist that you keep it

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I've heard arguments from sarcasmitron on YouTube that Putin actually believes his own lies. Putin is terrified that the CIA actually caused color revolutions in the 2000's and 2010's, and after the pro-constitution/anti-election-fraud protests in Russia in 2011, he's been fighting against "the shadowy hand of the gay nazi west" ever since.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

You have to be worth something to be invaded.

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (7 replies)
[–] [email protected] 77 points 1 year ago (2 children)

>Be Putin
>Announce NATO expansion is no threat
>Pull most troops from the Finnish border, because holy fuck, Ukraine has turned the entire army you had at the start into sunflower fertalizer
>Have all the units you pulled from the Finnish border incur astronomical losses, because you want to present any win at the next election
>Declare Finland a threat again
>Move the broken units back up to the border
>Profit

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Is Putin really that weak domestically to care about elections?

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (3 children)

His greatest political opponent just "went missing" (from the prison he was being held in) and "nobody knows where he is now." Russians have been watching their population get ground into meat by what he originally called "a military exercise" that's been going on over six times the time estimate that he set, and he's actively making it so nobody can leave Russia without smuggling themselves out.

He wouldn't still hold office if he was playing fairly, so yes, he is that weak domestically. Get fucked, Vladolf Putler.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

Don’t forget the oligarchs can no longer live the lives they did. Obviously they are complicit with the war but that doesn’t change the fact that there are those that would turn against him if the right opportunity presented itself

load more comments (2 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think they even bother with elections. Russia is dictatorship not a democracy

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 49 points 1 year ago (10 children)

Finland is NATO. He'll NEVER invade Finland. Have fun dividing up your oh so great, properly trained and well equipped army haha! Not like he'll need the troops in Ukraine, that war is going as smooth AF.

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I feel like he's doing this just to threaten the troops on the front line with somewhere colder

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Loads of forest up north. I'd prefer a camp fire over gunfire. Just make sure to bring your own axe.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Finns camp in such conditions voluntarily. Russians probably do too, lol. In fact, many Russians in that particular area of Russia are a lot more like Finns than they are like Russians. In fact, they are being repressed, and their language and culture is being systematically erased. If we are playing by Russian rules, this means Finland just has to step in, to uphold the human rights of the Finnic peoples living in this area.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments (9 replies)
[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (1 children)

According to the Russian president, Finland was “dragged” into Nato.

And who did the dragging Vlady?

[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago

Exactly. Most didn't want to join before Putin decided to invade Ukraine.

Putin managed to do what decades and decades of pro-NATO propaganda couldn't. It's almost impressive.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 1 year ago (14 children)

My perspective on war is so corrupted, at this point.

At one hand I want peace in Europe but on the other Hand I know Russia won't stop until they are beaten so getting NATO involved might end this conflict faster.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 1 year ago (10 children)

I've wanted to fight Russia since they annexed Crimea. I knew it wouldn't end there, and I was proven right. If they manage to obtain the natural resources of Ukraine then it will just keep escalating. The thing is, though, Russia has lost so many troops that they could easily be swept, right now. Now has never been a better time for either the EU or NATO to force Russia into demilitarization and reparations, as well as putting more economic pressure on the Chinese Dictatorship.

One thing I don't want, though, is a direct conflict with China. Those fuckers need to try fixing their own shit, first. Idk if that makes me strong against the weak and weak against the strong, but there is simply too much to lose for all sides in that sort of conflict, unlike the very weakened and destabilized Russia.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I just feel hopeless tbh. It feels like diplomacy failed or was the wrong tool to begin with. You can't argue with someone when their point is, "I want your land and you dead." Every Compromise seems to be a loss at this situation. War is never good. But is not going to War even worse? I just don't know anymore.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I've wanted to fight Russia since they annexed Crimea.

I’m sure you’ll be the first to volunteer for the front lines then.

load more comments (9 replies)
load more comments (8 replies)
[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's really disappointing, isn't it? Putin has been given every opportunity to stop the invasion or not even start it in the first place, and in ways that would help him save face. He's rejected all of that and insists on only violence. The only response to that is returning the violence. Defending Ukraine is the most unquestionably morally correct military action I've seen in my life.

It also brings up an interesting observation -- to have a peaceful society, you have to be willing to violently defend it. If another party insists you give into their demands or they'll get violent, you have to eventually oppose them. Otherwise, if you constantly submit to them in the name of peace, they'll eventually take away your peace. Just like a tolerant society must reject intolerant views, a peaceful society must be willing to defend themselves in war.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

As long as we have the freedom to live in peace, we ought to.

But the freedom doesn’t come free of charge.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago

If it weren't for the existence of Russia's massive fleet of nuclear weapons (which probably don't actually work but it's a hell of a risk) i'm sure NATO would have already got involved.

The only reasonable way I can see this war ending is if the internal politics of Russia decide Putin is now too much of a problem and deal with him themselves. Then whoever takes charge backs out of Ukraine because it's not a winnable conflict.

I can't see how anyone external can bring about an end to the conflict without risking massive escalation.

load more comments (11 replies)
[–] [email protected] 44 points 1 year ago (2 children)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 38 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)
[–] [email protected] 28 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Oh you're gonna move your last three tanks there? Good luck with that venture lmao

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

They can make a big show of parking the T14s and Su-57s there knowing they won't have to be put to use and no one will find out how shit they are.

[–] [email protected] 25 points 1 year ago

What military? Drunk old men?

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Moving to open a second front. In the winter. At the home of the White Death. Surely nothing can possibly go wrong with this plan.

[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (12 children)

Russia will absolutely not invade Finland, even if it weren't part of NATO and the EU.

load more comments (12 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

Forget article 5, if Russia thinks that Ukrainians are tough mothers, they (literally) won't know what hit them in Finland.

Thick, dense forests with millions of trees. Moutainous regions. Snow forever. Lots of places a sniper pair could hide.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 1 year ago

Wake up, Simo Hayha. Finland needs its protector once more.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

it's just a sneaky little recruitment campaign.. sign up now boys, we're forming a nice leisurely unit to sit and watch the Finns do nothing.. don't worry, we won't accidentally send you to die like worms in a ditch in Ukraine..

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Did they forget that Finland created Simo Heyha?

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Let me guess, another "training exercise"?

[–] [email protected] 13 points 1 year ago (3 children)

I was worried about this ever since Putin said "we have no plans of the sort" when Biden said Putin would invade a NATO country after Ukraine.

Lo and behold, troop build up on a border of a NATO country, which completely parallels the start of the Ukraine invasion.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

I highly doubt those troops are for invading Finland. If there's any NATO country that should be worried it's probably Estonia. Especially if/when Trump gets elected president again.

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] [email protected] 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I guess this is classic troop rotation shenanigans?

Instead of rotating towards areas near Moscow, rotating towards St. Petersburg gives soldiers a break/training while pressuring Finland.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago

There's too much mud and rain in Ukraine right now, so they need an excuse to pull back

[–] [email protected] 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If NATO get involved then China will.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (6 children)

China doesn't have the ability to project power. It'd be miserable to attack them on their own territory, but other than that, they're not a serious threat.

load more comments (6 replies)
[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago

This is a prime example of Russo-Finnish relations. PERKELE!

load more comments
view more: next ›